MSU students arrested

[jdl442]

I wonder if all these stories could be related to the abandoned trailer with missing shells in Woodridge, IL back in July.

Abandoned Trailer:

http://www.pyrouniverse.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=22527
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=304175

news stories from that area since then:

http://www.detnews.com/article/20091...-off-explosive
http://www.wxyz.com/news/local/story...ZDLOKAG2A.cspx
http://www.pyrouniverse.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=23753


Just a thought.

[mgh1980]

Originally Posted by countryboy7978

I agree with R1 that they should be punished but let the punishment fit the crime. Plain and simple it was a prank more than likely, and one where it seems nobody got hurt. A decent fine and make them pay for any damages and be done with it.

It's like when they expell grammer school kids for bringing a swiss army knife to class to show friends and show no intent to harm anyone because of a "zero tolerance" for weapons. Or some poor highschool sophmore gets 10 days suspension and a drug treatment program because she took a midol for cramps. It's a messed up world.

Yet some piece of shit terrorist can spew all kinds of hate while being in OUR military and nobody does anything about it because God forbid we offend a muslim. Then some day he decides to wage the Jihad on OUR unarmed soldiers and everyone asks WHY?????

AMEN brother Countryboy

[weatherman]

Originally Posted by countryboy7978

I agree with R1 that they should be punished but let the punishment fit the crime. Plain and simple it was a prank more than likely, and one where it seems nobody got hurt. A decent fine and make them pay for any damages and be done with it.

It's like when they expell grammer school kids for bringing a swiss army knife to class to show friends and show no intent to harm anyone because of a "zero tolerance" for weapons. Or some poor highschool sophmore gets 10 days suspension and a drug treatment program because she took a midol for cramps. It's a messed up world.

Yet some piece of shit terrorist can spew all kinds of hate while being in OUR military and nobody does anything about it because God forbid we offend a muslim. Then some day he decides to wage the Jihad on OUR unarmed soldiers and everyone asks WHY?????

I'm sorry I fail to see how this is at all like a kid taking a swiss army knife to school.
These kids threw a shell into someone elses yard, just to see what it would do. It would be like if the swiss army knife kid stabbed someone just to see if they'd bleed.
My point is they knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that this would cause some kind of damage to the property. My point is proven by the fact the lift charge was removed and the QM was replaced with visco. So they did know what this device was capable of.

Standard pen length in the US is 5.5 - 6.0 in.

measure them, just because the government doesn't have a law saying that it's so doesn't mean that pen industry doesn't have a standard. You'll find that 99% of every pen you come into contact with is btween 5.5 and 6 inches.

Great, another Pu wanna be rule enforcer.

Hey I am all for relaxing the rules. but there is no way in hell that government or law enforcement is going to even think about relaxing them when's there's stupid shit like this going on. They now have another reason to point their finger at and say "told you that the public is not responsible enough to relax the law"

i say lock em up for a while, 30 days and probation, on misdemeanor charges. no need for felony...but they do need to learn from this somehow.

This is an excellent idea. I agree with some minor jail time and a stamp on their record for life because stupid or not this was dangerous and they had to know how dangerous it was by the shell modifications. If the shell was modified by someone else you can bet your ass that person told them how dangerous the device was, just to cover their own ass from a sheriff showing up at their door say that some stupid kid blew his hand off with the device he/she sold/gave them.

I admit I am a bit hard-nosed but if some threw this type of a device at me or my family I would use lethal force to defend myself from what I perceived to be a life threatening assault. So if they threw it at my property I would have to assume they intended to cause property damage. People who do such things purposely need to be taught that it is wrong and that society at large will not tolerate it.

In short keep these devices in the hands of professionals that know how and when to use them and punish those that misappropriate and misuse them. Even if this was a consumer grade shell at 1.75" I would have the same feelings about the matter. To me it's not the size of the shell, it was the intent and the knowledge that in it's current modified state it was going to cause some property damage.

[countryboy7978]

It's a FIREWORK for Christ's Sake!!! Lethal force???? Man we have some messed up values here. Get real. You're gonna empty a mag on some kid throwing firecrackers? Guess who's the one getting locked up?

My swiss army knife analogy is about the punishment not fitting the crime. They didn't HURT anyone.

If it was packed with ball bearings and nails it would be a different story...they removed the lift to make a big cherry bomb THAT"S IT!!!

They likely wanted to make a big boom to scare, not injure or kill someone.

[weatherman]

Originally Posted by countryboy7978

It's a FIREWORK for Christ's Sake!!! Lethal force???? Man we have some messed up values here. Get real. You're gonna empty a mag on some kid throwing firecrackers? Guess who's the one getting locked up?

My swiss army knife analogy is about the punishment not fitting the crime. They didn't HURT anyone.

If it was packed with ball bearings and nails it would be a different story...they removed the lift to make a big cherry bomb THAT"S IT!!!

They likely wanted to make a big boom to scare, not injure or kill someone.

NO see this is where your values are messed up. In it's modified form thrown into the yard it was no longer considered a "firework". It was considered a bomb. Whether there was direct or indirect intention of causing property damage remains for a jury to determine and whether the kids knew they had made a bomb is also irrelevant, ignorance is no protection. Mind you I didn't write the law and I do feel that a felony in this case is too harsh, but whoever threw that device should spend some time in a jail cell, even if it's just 10 days, thinking about what they did wrong so they NEVER do it again and that everyone in that group tells everyone they ever meet that this type of action is not to be tolerated.

if someone threw this type of a device at me or my family I would use lethal force to defend myself from what I perceived to be a life threatening assault. So if they threw it at my property I would have to assume they intended to cause property damage.

If you read my statement you will see that I made two completely different points. 1. If it was thrown at me or my family I would consider it assault with a deadly weapon. 2. If it was thrown at my property I would consider it intentional property damage.
I fail to see how you get me emptying a mag into them from those two statements. There is enough powder in a 3" shell to kill a person, thrown at someone it is a deadly weapon. Thrown at property, someone is knowingly and willingly causing property damage. If they don't know it THEY SHOULDN'T BE USING THE DEVICE! Which is why, as I pointed out before, they should find where these devices are coming from and put a stop to it.

[Barracuda]

Originally Posted by weatherman

they should find where these devices are coming from and put a stop to it.

Krazy Kaplan's...in....

[Georgie-Tiger]

Originally Posted by Barracuda

Krazy Kaplan's...in....

i was going to guess Sheltons myself. but i have zero proof .

[countryboy7978]

I got mine from TNT...already with lift removed and visco installed.

They sell the optional bullet proof vest incase you get mistaken for a deadly weapon user. The are next to the dog calming vests.

[Randall]

measure them, just because the government doesn't have a law saying that it's so doesn't mean that pen industry doesn't have a standard. You'll find that 99% of every pen you come into contact with is btween 5.5 and 6 inches.

-lol, ok, I'll take your word for it,lol

[mgh1980]

I, like GT got mine from Shelton's the loudest ones I've seen are from there. They also come with a shell conversion kit, everything you need to disassemble them, and get a piece of visco in them. There are premium kits out there that have black markers and 'TNT' stickers if you want to to with the Wiley Coyote and Roadrunner type of black bomb.

I can't believe there is a discussion on this thread about the standard length of pens. I have that pen on my desk right now, those shells are no bigger than 1.75", and this is generous.

Secondly, you face a sh@# storm if someone breaks into your house to rob you and you shoot them, just imagine telling a judge, some kids threw some fireworks at my house, and I opened up at them. Yes, pranks, which is what this sounds like, should elicit a different response than someone breaking into your house to harm you. Personally, I would have gone with the paintball route. Kids drive by and throw some shells whether or not they're salutes at my house, it's time to bust out the paintball gun. Even if you don't hit them, you'll mark their vehicle enough to make things interesting depending on what route you want to persue. 'Officer, their car is covered in glow in the dark paint'

My other beef with this thread is that everyone is going around and acting like it's the end of the world that some punk ass kids got salutes. Oh, my God, everyone check their mags, make sure your locks are tight The end of fireworks as we know it is before us!!!

The fact of the matter is, is that these are 1.75 or even 1.5 inchers, and are not difficult to find on the consumer level if you look around. If you disagree, you're lying to yourself, and I'm sure there are alot of people on here who would buy a case of these in a heartbeat.

After thinking about this, and reading this thread, I'm pretty sure this was an incident where some dip sh@# kids tried to play an off colored and dangerous prank in Michigan.

[fireworkfan504]

Originally Posted by mgh1980

I, like GT got mine from Shelton's the loudest ones I've seen are from there. They also come with a shell conversion kit, everything you need to disassemble them, and get a piece of visco in them. There are premium kits out there that have black markers and 'TNT' stikers if you want to to with the Wiley Coyote and Roadrunner type of black bomb.

I can't believe there is a discussion on this thread about the standard length of pens. I have that pen on my desk right now, those shells are no bigger than 1.75", and this is generous.

Secondly, you face a sh@# storm if someone breaks into your house to rob you and you shoot them, just imagine telling a judge, some kids threw some fireworks at my house, and I opened up at them. Yes, pranks, which is what this sounds like, should elicit a different response than someone breaking into your house to harm you. Personally, I would have gone with the paintball route. Kids drive by and throw some shells whether or not they're salutes at my house, it's time to bust out the paintball gun. Even if you don't hit them, you'll mark their vehicle enough to make things interesting depending on what route you want to persue. 'Officer, their car is covered in glow in the dark paint'

My other beef with this thread is that everyone is going around and acting like it's the end of the world that some punk ass kids got salutes. Oh, my God, everyone check their mags, make sure your locks are tight The end of fireworks as we know it is before us!!!

The fact of the matter is, is that these are 1.75 or even 1.5 inchers, and are not difficult to find on the consumer level if you look around. If you disagree, you're lying to yourself, and I'm sure there are alot of people on here who would buy a case of these in a heartbeat.

After thinking about this, and reading this thread, I'm pretty sure this was an incident where some dip sh@# kids tried to play an off colored and dangerous prank in Michigan.

I agree with you.

[weatherman]

I remember these statements made just a few months ago. For the record I never said that I thought these kids were trying to use this device as a weapon to injure anyone, I said that I thought they would have to known that it was going to cause at least some property damage and that knowingly or unknowingly they had made/purchased/received what is considered a bomb. Somehow I think you two would have a completely different tune if one of these kids had blown off his hand or a few fingers while lighting it. Or someone was standing outside smoking and was burned by the shell. IMO just because no one was hurt in this incident doesn't stop the fact that someone could have been hurt and doesn't mean that it wasn't wrong.

http://www.pyrouniverse.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=22735

Originally Posted by countryboy7978

... However if they are endangering you or your family then the action should cease, ...

Originally Posted by mgh1980

...When you start crossing into the realm of using them as weapons against your neighbors, that's wrong.

Originally Posted by mgh1980

...
I agree, no one should be throwing M-80s at people or setting them off around children, or going around selling illegal explosives. With that being said, there are firework injuries that occur with legal and illegal fireworks and with illegal explosives. If you look at the stats, more people are injured with sparklers than an M-80. Also if you look at the people injured with firecrackers and M-80s, some of them are complete morons, lighting them in their hands, playing chicken, etc. When they get hurt, who gets blamed, not the moron who lit the device, but the pyrotechnic community as a whole. The guy who lit the device is portrayed as the innocent victim which is wrong!!

[mgh1980]

Originally Posted by weatherman

I remember these statements made just a few months ago. For the record I never said that I thought these kids were trying to use this device as a weapon to injure anyone, I said that I thought they would have to known that it was going to cause at least some property damage and that knowingly or unknowingly they had made/purchased/received what is considered a bomb. Somehow I think you two would have a completely different tune if one of these kids had blown off his hand or a few fingers while lighting it. Or someone was standing outside smoking and was burned by the shell. IMO just because no one was hurt in this incident doesn't stop the fact that someone could have been hurt and doesn't mean that it wasn't wrong.

http://www.pyrouniverse.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=22735

First off, a 1.75 inch shell or 1.5 inch shell is not a bomb. It's not meant to harm anyone, it's not packed with bbs or nails, if this shell would be, then, fine, I would agree with you.

Secondly, my tune if one of these kids blew off his or her hand or a few fingers were knocked off while lighing one of these would be something of the following: 'evolution is a bitch' or 'if you play with fire, you get burned' If they knew how to dismantle a shell and knew how to put visco into it, and if they get hurt, that's their issue, and fault.

Thirdly, no one got hurt, which is why this should not be a felony. This was a prank. What if someone threw an egg at your house, and you slipped and fell, should the person who threw the egg be charged with aggrovated assult with a deadly weapon, no!!. It was stupid for them to lop an egg over at your home, but it was a prank, and defending your self against this using deadly force probably would be against the law.

Taking my other posts out of context is also wrong. Those were posts directed at someone using a M-80 or explosive device as a weapon, or getting hurt while using these devices improprely. I'll be the first to say, if I get hurt using fireworks, its probably some fault of my own in the sense I didn't take the proper safety precautions, I will not blame the firework or society as a whole for my misfortune.

Also, if someone is throwing an M-80 at me with the intent of harming or killing me, this should be a felony. Its all about intent

[Georgie-Tiger]

Originally Posted by mgh1980

I, like GT got mine from Shelton's the loudest ones I've seen are from there. They also come with a shell conversion kit, everything you need to disassemble them, and get a piece of visco in them. There are premium kits out there that have black markers and 'TNT' stikers if you want to to with the Wiley Coyote and Roadrunner type of black bomb.

I can't believe there is a discussion on this thread about the standard length of pens. I have that pen on my desk right now, those shells are no bigger than 1.75", and this is generous.

Secondly, you face a sh@# storm if someone breaks into your house to rob you and you shoot them, just imagine telling a judge, some kids threw some fireworks at my house, and I opened up at them. Yes, pranks, which is what this sounds like, should elicit a different response than someone breaking into your house to harm you. Personally, I would have gone with the paintball route. Kids drive by and throw some shells whether or not they're salutes at my house, it's time to bust out the paintball gun. Even if you don't hit them, you'll mark their vehicle enough to make things interesting depending on what route you want to persue. 'Officer, their car is covered in glow in the dark paint'

My other beef with this thread is that everyone is going around and acting like it's the end of the world that some punk ass kids got salutes. Oh, my God, everyone check their mags, make sure your locks are tight The end of fireworks as we know it is before us!!!

The fact of the matter is, is that these are 1.75 or even 1.5 inchers, and are not difficult to find on the consumer level if you look around. If you disagree, you're lying to yourself, and I'm sure there are alot of people on here who would buy a case of these in a heartbeat.

After thinking about this, and reading this thread, I'm pretty sure this was an incident where some dip sh@# kids tried to play an off colored and dangerous prank in Michigan.

totally agreed.

[weatherman]

Originally Posted by mgh1980

Those were posts directed at someone using a M-80 or explosive device as a weapon, or getting hurt while using these devices improprely.

Also, if someone is throwing an M-80 at me with the intent of harming or killing me, this should be a felony. Its all about intent

Thank you for proving my point,
1. IMO the intent here directly or indirectly was property damage. There is no way, from the shells modifications, that the person that threw it did not know that it would cause damage.
2. The device was used improperly.
3. I don't think your statements are taken out of context. Most especially the parts I underlined.

IMO a device that, which by design, throws burning stars in all directions for over 50' (if it were 1.75" even though IMO it looks like a 2-3" shell)would be much more likely to hurt or burn someone than a device, which by design, makes a loud noise and has a shockwave that travels maby 25 - 30 feet. Which is completely beside the point I was trying to make in this thread about the individuals using this device with the intent of causing property damage.(Directly or indirectly makes little difference in the eyes of the law) Just the modifications and the fact that they had more of the devices in their car makes more aggravating than mitigating circumstances in this case. It was wrong, it was stupid, it was illegal and it was dangerous none of those points IMO can be effectively argued against. I do think that the punishment should fit the crime here 10 days in jail to the person who threw it 120 days community service, probation for a year. Why? because were not talking about a firecracker, we're talking about a device that has the potential to cause significant bodily harm to the person lighting it and moderate to severe burns to others around them.

I should think that we agree that these devices were obtained illegally and that practice should be investigated and halted.
Trust me you tell an 18 year old kid that they might do 20 years and he/she's gonna tell you where they got it from. Then give them 10 days to know that the law means business when it comes to this type of thing. They'll never do it again.

[mgh1980]

My responses are in bold below

Originally Posted by weatherman

Thank you for proving my point,
1. IMO the intent here directly or indirectly was property damage. There is no way, from the shells modifications, that the person that threw it did not know that it would cause damage. My point is that their actions would not warrent deadly force. I don't think I would shoot someone who is trying to vandalize my house. By using this as a weapon (antipersonal) that's a whole other world. These weren't pipebombs or grenades. Shoot someone who is spray painting your house, you'll have good and long to think about it in prison. Granted, you'd love to shoot them while they're doing it, but you cant
2. The device was used improperly. I agree
3. I don't think your statements are taken out of context. Most especially the parts I underlined. Yes they are, and you're using them to suit your own argument which is flawed. I stipulated, that if this was used as a weapon against or designed to kill me or my family, you could use force, but when some teenagers are putting visco in a shell and trying to make noise, they, hardly are trying to kill someone. As I previously said, most likely that kid was trying to impress those girls in some twisted fashion, kids, wtf!!!

IMO a device that, which by design, throws burning stars in all directions for over 50' (if it were 1.75" even though IMO it looks like a 2-3" shell)Obviously, you're either blind or you have your perspective wrong, and this is either a 1.75 or 1.5 shell. If it was a 3 in shell, the pen would be much longer. would be much more likely to hurt or burn someone than a device, which by design, makes a loud noise and has a shockwave that travels maby 25 - 30 feet. Which is completely beside the point I was trying to make in this thread about the individuals using this device with the intent of causing property damage.(Directly or indirectly makes little difference in the eyes of the law) Just the modifications and the fact that they had more of the devices in their car makes more aggravating than mitigating circumstances in this case. It was wrong, it was stupid, it was illegal and it was dangerous none of those points IMO can be effectively argued against.I agree with you here I do think that the punishment should fit the crime here 10 days in jail to the person who threw it 120 days community service, probation for a year. Why? because were not talking about a firecracker, we're talking about a device that has the potential to cause significant bodily harm to the person lighting it and moderate to severe burns to others around them. Agreed, but it's not a felony

I should think that we agree that these devices were obtained illegally and that practice should be investigated and halted.You're wrong again, these devices 1.75 or 1.5 inches are available, you just have to look around, they're out there. If you're in your pyro fantasy world that everything you buy in every store is compliant and contains no flash, that's up to you. The reality of the situation is that you could purchase these without a 54. I'm not saying what they did was right, but don't pretend that these kids somehow broke into a mag to obtain these, or that some lost soul with a 54 decided to provide these kids with these.
Trust me you tell an 18 year old kid that they might do 20 years and he/she's gonna tell you where they got it from. Then give them 10 days to know that the law means business when it comes to this type of thing. They'll never do it again.

I'm sick of arguing here. The point is they did something stupid. Again, refer to my previous post, we're quibbling about the size of a pen, and the argument is based upon the size of the salutes. I agree, no one should be throwing fireworks modified or not at someone's house. To me, this is an unsaid rule, but I guess not to others. Lastly, these are not 3 inch salutes by any means, and we're also assuming they bought these somehow, or stole them, who knows, maybe they were manufactured by one of the kids. Whatever, they're out there, it doesn't mean we need to go on a witch hunt to find where they got them from.

Granted, no one got hurt, this doesn't make it right in any form, but you cannot justify shooting these kids for throwing fireworks whether or not they're modified into your lawn. Trust me, if this was possible, I would be in prison now. Let the punishment fit the crime!! Give them a hefty fine, make them pull weeds, dig ditches, rebuild a house in Detroit, clean a sewer, do some jail time, which ever.

[weatherman]

Originally Posted by mgh1980

My responses are in bold below



I'm sick of arguing here. The point is they did something stupid. Again, refer to my previous post, we're quibbling about the size of a pen, and the argument is based upon the size of the salutes. I agree, no one should be throwing fireworks modified or not at someone's house. To me, this is an unsaid rule, but I guess not to others. Lastly, these are not 3 inch salutes by any means, and we're also assuming they bought these somehow, or stole them, who knows, maybe they were manufactured by one of the kids. Whatever, they're out there, it doesn't mean we need to go on a witch hunt to find where they got them from.

Granted, no one got hurt, this doesn't make it right in any form, but you cannot justify shooting these kids for throwing fireworks whether or not they're modified into your lawn. Trust me, if this was possible, I would be in prison now. Let the punishment fit the crime!! Give them a hefty fine, make them pull weeds, dig ditches, rebuild a house in Detroit, clean a sewer, do some jail time, which ever.

I would like you to tell me where you got the impression that I would shoot them for this. I NEVER SAID THAT! I said THAT IF SOMEONE THREW IT AT ME HOW I WOULD PERCEIVE THE THREAT...

They are definitely not salutes.

They showed them destroying them and talking to a state trooper last night on the news. Run of the mill shells/cake insert with white/silver glitter.

I am sorry but I cannot believe that these kids made these and then modified them. They were clearly modified to have the lift removed in the picture.

IMO these are definitely larger than 1.75" that's all I said. I calculate them to be 2.25" actually. Meaning that yes they could have come from a 500g cake. I find this to be an unlikely(but not improbable) scenario because most kids would have just lit the cake off and ran rather than take the time to completely dismantle it and do something like this.

In addition originally I had said that I thought southern Michigan has a problem with 1.3g product on the streets and the article pointed that out as well. I gave another example of some lady putting an 8" shell in her ex-boyfriends car. These devices had to come from somewhere. I don't think that they came from the same source, but I do think that those who have permits for these are being lax and it's giving the government reasons to crack down. I am really tired of seeing things like this in the news, it does this hobby no good. So no this is not a witch hunt but rather getting to the bottom of an ongoing problem that should be resolved.

[Barracuda]

Originally Posted by weatherman

IMO these are definitely larger than 1.75" that's all I said. I calculate them to be 2.25" actually.

Exactly what I thought these to be.

They look nothing close to being 1.75" to me.


'
Fair or not as to consequences, the fact is these folks will be judged by the community/law. We may not like the perception, or believe the legalities and aftermath in terms of consequences to be fair, but in the end, this is how they will be judged.

Regardless of the punishment, I am guessing they will learn their lesson. The exposure and POTENTIAL consequences of their actions are very real, either slight or grand.

A shame any way we all look at it...from multiple perspectives...

[mgh1980]

Originally Posted by Barracuda

Exactly what I thought these to be.

They look nothing close to being 1.75" to me.


'
Fair or not as to consequences, the fact is these folks will be judged by the community/law. We may not like the perception, or believe the legalities and aftermath in terms of consequences to be fair, but in the end, this is how they will be judged.

Regardless of the punishment, I am guessing they will learn their lesson. The exposure and POTENTIAL consequences of their actions are very real, either slight or grand.

A shame any way we all look at it...from multiple perspectives...

Agreed, it truly is a shame. Regardless of how small or large these shells were, you kow what will happen. This will serve as ammo for the anti pyro movement.

Furthermore, it's a shame that these kids did this for a multitude of reasons. The initial injuries they may face, will, in fact be their fault and they'll have to live with their consequences, but every injury that happens to these yahoos who misuse pyro impacts us all. Also, every misuse of pyro wheter it be for mischef, vandalism, or whatever, will also hurt the hobby as we know it.

So they were white/silver glitter shells, if these kids were around me, the worst shell they could use are crackle shells. They would annoy the piss out of me. And yes, I'm still sticking with my conclusion that the shells these kids used came from shelton's, and there is a conversion kit for these (see attachement). I think the importer for the kit is ACME.

[weatherman]

Yea I remember these guys they sold me a set of defective rocket skates

[Big No No]

Here are the links to the university newspaper. http://www.statenews.com/index.php/a...son_time_fines http://www.statenews.com/index.php/a...osives_charges http://www.statenews.com/index.php/a...ential_to_kill http://www.statenews.com/index.php/a...explosion_case

[weatherman]

Originally Posted by big no no

Here are the links to the university newspaper. http://www.statenews.com/index.php/a...son_time_fines http://www.statenews.com/index.php/a...osives_charges http://www.statenews.com/index.php/a...ential_to_kill http://www.statenews.com/index.php/a...explosion_case

Thanks for the links BigNoNo.

It is confusing why they are being charged with property damage if there wasn't any. I guess the burden of proof of damage is on the prosecutor. It is clear the device had the potential to cause damage, but if it didn't then it didn't. I can see the concern of the bomb squad in this instance, ppl that see these as big fireworks are dangerous IMO, a three inch shell should be treated with respect(with or without the lift charge). Though I personally would be hard pressed to call it a bomb, in the eyes of the law it is one in this instance. I can also see why law enforcement is making such a big deal out of this, they want ppl to stop lighting these things off like this.