Another Type 4 question

[spode]

I have the opportunity to attempt to add a magazine when I build a boat dock this winter. I was curious what your guys' thoughts might be. I know the BATF agent will have final say it what flies, but here are my thoughts. I am able to build the dock up to 100' out into the lake. I will probably only need to go 50-60 to ensure deep enough water, and that will also ensure I have no problems being 150' from the nearest inhabitable building. I have 3 main questions...

1. Are there any advantages or disadvantages to having an outdoor magazine vs and indoor magazine? I am debating whether to just put a small storage shed (converted to meet type 4 requirements) setting on the dock under the roof of the boathouse, or actually building the magazine into the boat house. The drawings I have attached is option one. But I think I will shorten the walkway between the boat parking and magazine, move the storage shed towards the front of the boat house, so access to the magazine will be from between the 2 sheds not from the boat side. Option two would be to wall the entire right side of the boathouse and have more of a building structure, divided in half with one half built to meet type 4 requirements.

2. There are some limitations to what can be stored near a magazine. Do you think there will be any issues with having a boat parked only 10' away being that it will always have gas in it?

3. Any issues with the magazine being out over the water? Water level remains fairly constant on this lake, so the dock will be solid, not a floating dock.

[WildWilli]

A couple thngs might get you.

§ 555.212 Smoking and open flames.
Smoking, matches, open flames, and spark producing devices are not permitted:
...
(b) Within 50 feet of any outdoor magazine;
...

or

§ 555.215 Housekeeping.
... Volatile materials are to be kept a distance of not less than 50 feet from outdoor magazines.

[billebouy]

§ 555.210
(a) Outdoor magazines—

(1) General. Outdoor magazines are to be fire-resistant,
weather-resistant, and theft-resistant. The ground around outdoor
magazines must slope away for drainage or other adequate
drainage be provided. When unattended, vehicular magazines
must have wheels removed or otherwise be effectively immobilized
by kingpin locking devices or other methods approved by
the Director.

I would expect you would have to have the floor of the magazine above the maximum flood level of your lake.

(2) Construction. Outdoor magazines are to be constructed
of masonry, metal-covered wood, fabricated metal, or a combination
of these materials. Foundations are to be constructed of brick,
concrete, cement block, stone, or metal or wood posts. If piers or
posts are used, in lieu of a continuous foundation, the space under
the building is to be enclosed with fire-resistant material.

Enclosing the space under your magazine could be the killer for you here.

[spode]

Thanks for the tips so far. Anything I can try to address before meeting with an agent will help.

I am a little concerned about the "spark producing devices" also.

Building above the flood level of the lake should be fairly easy. It is spelled out pretty clear because they have a lot of limitations on how I can alter the ground inside that area.

I was assuming that if the magazine was sitting on the dock and had a solid metal floor lined with wood, there would be no issues with under the dock. Again something the agent will have to address. But if I can go in educated my chances have to be better.

[lugnuts]

I think what billebouy is trying to say by this

I would expect you would have to have the floor of the magazine above the maximum flood level of your lake.

Being that the dock is not floating, it is solid if the water were to rise lets say 20 inches the dock would not float up and your magazine may be under the water.

Not sure about what the law is and how it works on the lake you are on but here Duke Power owns most of the public lakes and they have the right to flood the lake 10 ft above full pond in an emergency situation. If your dock is solid then it would be completely under water, If the lake was flooded to that level.

Like you said the BATFE will have the final say so. I would be worried about my product being ruined by the water so much it would make me paranoid.

[r1dermon]

i'd imagine the AHJ for the lake would have the final say. im sure there are regulations governing structures ON the lake, that includes docks and moorings, which generally require a permit to build.

[QMAN]

Flooding high water aside I bet your agent is going to treat the entire lake as "public property" similar to a road or railway and require you to have similar safety setback similar to inhabited buildings. One could argue somebody sitting in a boat 20 feet in the water away from your Mag is no safer than someone 20 feet away from your mag on the land. They are still going to consider it too close to the public.

[spode]

Originally Posted by QMAN

Flooding high water aside I bet your agent is going to treat the entire lake as "public property" similar to a road or railway and require you to have similar safety setback similar to inhabited buildings. One could argue somebody sitting in a boat 20 feet in the water away from your Mag is no safer than someone 20 feet away from your mag on the land. They are still going to consider it too close to the public.

That makes a lot of sense. Their right to flood the lake is very limited due to surrounding low areas. But, i can see the public thing being a bug issue since I am unable to control who comes aroud the magazine.

I will end up talking to the local agent soon. My guess is though I will only end up being able to get a variance for ematch indoors.

[lugnuts]

That makes a lot of sense. Their right to flood the lake is very limited due to surrounding low areas. But, i can see the public thing being a bug issue since I am unable to control who comes aroud the magazine.

The right to flood the lake was established long before any houses were there I would assume. As to the right being limited, 5 years ago we had alot of rain, it rained like 8 days straight like 50 inches or something houses on lakes nearby had water inside parts of them because they had built within that buffer that had been established. Not to mention that those peoples docks were under 6 feet of water. They are campers still in the lake that were well over 6 feet above the normal water level.

Those people sued the owners of the lake and lost ofcourse. Simply because they were building stuff inside the buffer.

if the Agent says yes, go ahead it would just make me paranoid each time it started raining.