Meeting with IL "rulers"

crazyskier537 · November 3rd, 2009, 03:58 PM

Sorry for starting a new thread, but I would just like to inform all that I will be meeting with IL powers to discuss and improve the current ban on all consumer fireworks. Any tips.

pyrokid · November 3rd, 2009, 04:14 PM

Cool! Why do you get to meet with them? Do you know someone?

tcape · November 3rd, 2009, 05:48 PM

Two words:
Bribe them!

Catfish25p2000 · November 3rd, 2009, 06:15 PM

Good luck, do us proud!!! Go in there wearing a Blago wig. That should do it!!!

myplanb31 · November 3rd, 2009, 07:06 PM

Sick!! I hope they do something for us.

mgh1980 · November 3rd, 2009, 07:13 PM

Good luck with that!!

I agree, if you look at the amt of money that crosses the border into indiana and the neighboring states, it's huge. It's surprising why IL hasn't taken advantage of this, the tax revenue would be huge!!

crazyskier537 · November 3rd, 2009, 08:20 PM

I'm hoping to point out that Indiana is getting huge benefits that could be ours. Also I will show them various stasticsabout the improbability of firework mishap. The small portion of it happens anyway, whether or not fireworks are legal. I'm at least hoping for them to make it easier to apply for a 1.4g permit, or make fireworks legal around major holidays.

First, I will be talking to mayor daily to get his opinion (partially for practice as well)...

It might still be a couple weeks.

MODS: Whoops, I think I should've posted this in laws, but it's fine here too because it is regarding 1.4g.

**stuntborg** · November 3rd, 2009, 08:24 PM

You may want to do a little background studing. The wrong words could hurt your cause more than help it. Read the thread on NYs fight to legalize. Dont use the argument "everyone does it anyway". Provide hard facts and statistics.

mgh1980 · November 3rd, 2009, 08:30 PM

there was another thread about this.

Mayor Daley would be a dead end, this is the guy who had handguns banned in Chicago proper, as well as a host of other goofy legislation. Also you're asking his opinion to legalize pyro in a city where the average back yard is 10 x 10 ft.

I'll be the first to agree that IL could make money off of this, but I agree with stunt that you have to go about this properly, and honestly, the laws probably won't change.

Too many people still view pyro as evil

crazyskier537 · November 3rd, 2009, 08:32 PM

Thanks guys, all good advice. I know you guys would probly prefer strobes to do it, but noone has thought of it yet...

Strobes-if you do want to do it, be my guest were all fighting for the same cause on the same side...

r1dermon · November 3rd, 2009, 08:40 PM

by the way...telling legislators or politicians that "accidents happen anyway" to support your case about fireworks being "safe" is probably a bad plan.

**JoeRatman** · November 3rd, 2009, 08:46 PM

Moved to "Laws and Politics" forum.

strobes · November 3rd, 2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyskier537

Thanks guys, all good advice. I know you guys would probly prefer strobes to do it, but noone has thought of it yet...

Strobes-if you do want to do it, be my guest were all fighting for the same cause on the same side...

Strobes knows its not going to happen and not to waste time, been there done that.

crazyskier537 · November 3rd, 2009, 09:27 PM

^^^ Everyone seems so certain.

Keep em cumin...

strobes · November 3rd, 2009, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyskier537

^^^ Everyone seems so certain.

Keep em cumin...

Ive been involved with pyro for over 20 years with 18 or so of them on a professional level. I have talked with a number of legislators threwout the years.
The problem you come up against is public opinion and most people do not like fireworks.
If there was a referendum that went up to vote, sadly our side would lose and badly.
Its also does not help that most Fire Marshals, Firemen and so on would actively campaign against pyro.
The powers to be have too many reasons not to make them legal.

mgh1980 · November 3rd, 2009, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strobes

Ive been involved with pyro for over 20 years with 18 or so of them on a professional level. I have talked with a number of legislators threwout the years.
The problem you come up against is public opinion and most people do not like fireworks.
If there was a referendum that went up to vote, sadly our side would lose and badly.
Its also does not help that most Fire Marshals, Firemen and so on would actively campaign against pyro.
The powers to be have too many reasons not to make them legal.

I've also looked into this, and I totally agree, the powers to be are way too powerful. Firemarshals, firemen, police would campaign very hard against this. Watch the local chicagoland news prior to every fourth, they show the same seizure every year, a minivan packed with retail. The news always puts a spin on it like they removed a van full of cocaine off the street. The previously mentioned groups are powerful, but wait till you get to the parents, and what about the children. As soon as fireworks are legal in an illegal state, all of the kids won't be able to draw and play because they'll all burn them selves or blow off limbs with those 'evil fireworks'

I agree with strobes, its a dead end!!

**yeagerb** · November 4th, 2009, 05:25 AM

Come on fella's....it may be a dead end, but never say NEVER.

Being an Illinois citizen, the cold hard facts of this state is relatively simple: MONEY TALKS. We sell our Federal Senator seats to the highest bidder for goodness sake!

Recommendations: Stick to the cold hard facts of revenue! Suggest that the money generated from 1.4g sales be earmarked to support FIRE SERVICES and LOCAL POLICE (you've now just turned 2 of the loudest opposition groups to your side) and of coarse make sure there is a special 1% sales tax added to all 1.4g sales exclusively for our State coffer (secret political talk for brib).

If the revenue is there (especially during the 4th and New Year's), our legislators will vote it in.....forget about little Johnny blowing his hand off, my state rep's son/daughter needs that new Porsche for their ivy league college!!!

DoctorG · November 4th, 2009, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgh1980

I've also looked into this, and I totally agree, the powers to be are way too powerful. Firemarshals, firemen, police would campaign very hard against this. Watch the local chicagoland news prior to every fourth, they show the same seizure every year, a minivan packed with retail. The news always puts a spin on it like they removed a van full of cocaine off the street. The previously mentioned groups are powerful, but wait till you get to the parents, and what about the children. As soon as fireworks are legal in an illegal state, all of the kids won't be able to draw and play because they'll all burn them selves or blow off limbs with those 'evil fireworks'

I agree with strobes, its a dead end!!

Daley is chicago's ingrained poly....if you send him a letter, make sure you spell his name right. Nothing will get done in chicago w/o his OK....and getting it done in a big city like chicago...good luck...like above poster said...10x10 yards is NOT conducive to pyro even by someone who is safe...and if they were...they wouldn't be lighting it there.

In order to get it to be OK in small towns, etc, you'd have to get it legal at the state level first...as laws can be MORE strict than state...but not less-so. Soo, you have to get the state to pass the legislation. To get an idea about how difficult that is...there is a buried thread someplace about some guy with some hot wife who worked to get conceal/carry laws passed in Missouri.(Sorry, I'm blanking) Ross??.

Anyways...Gotta start at the state level. And, yes, you'll get the fireman (as they did in Arizona) to go against you. The police won't be able to write tickets for ppl w/ fireworks anymore, the public seizures won't be glamorized on TV...with the legalization, there will be loses to the state/community of a monetary nature. I'm sure they'd be offset by the taxes...but good luck getting them to see that...politicians only care about getting re-elected ... and it's too convenient a commercial sound bite to say "Bilbo Baggins voted for your child to blow his fingers off...THREE TIMES".

The only way your state will legalize FW will be to have every other state legalize it first...and even then look for them to hold out another decade.

Now if everyone hasn't scared you off...

1. Start w/ the state
2. Bring oodles-o-statistics
3. Don't bring up injury rates until they ask (and they will)
a. Show how injuries have gone DOWN, even with #s(pounds that is) of FW imported increasing dramatically
4. Someone said in a post more kids drown in a bucket of water than die via fireworks injuries (and showed stats)
5. Be prepared for a lot of disappointment
6. Even when you think a politician is on your side...he'll stab you in the back b/c he's just going to use you as a political chip to get pork into another bill for killing your bill....it's just the way politicians work.

Others, more informed than I, can add other quality suggestions...but that's a start

Good luck.

mgh1980 · November 4th, 2009, 05:56 AM

In addition to the ^^^ you have to appeal to the pocketbooks. IL has a huge debt, and tax increases abound, if you are able to present all of these facts and somehow come up with a number on tax revenue generated, you may have a very small chance. Again, as Dr. G said, you're going to need alot of info, stats, and influence.

Good luck, as well

nater219 · November 4th, 2009, 06:00 AM

I agree with Doctor G. When Indiana changed their law, Fort Wayne enacted a ban about a month or two after the first fully legal 4th. If I recall, Phantom / BJ Alan was a key player in helping make IN change from our previous laws.

Money was key, our concession was the 5% safety tax, this goes back to the fire department for training purposes. I'm sure plenty of people on this board recall the $2 "license" you had to apply for to buy aerials and firecrackers, then the promise to take them out of state or discharged in an approved shoot site.

Baby steps might be the key. Over my life, we went from only having safe and sane available, then we could purchase out-of-state item, then we could light them in certain places approved by the AHJ, and finally they're all legal statewide, unless your city has a specific ban. Even then the ban does not apply during holidays. All this happened over than last 20+ years. (maybe longer, I'm 27).

DoctorG · November 4th, 2009, 07:51 AM

Perhaps *gasp* contacting BJ Allan/Phantom would a good step as well...they probably have their ducks in a row pretty well...they'd best be able to give you a reality check / help in working with your state...they may have locations across your border...but I'm sure they'd rather have them IN your state too

Quote:

Is the enemy of my enemy my friend? It is if you're dealing w/ politics

backdrft76 · November 4th, 2009, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strobes

Firemen and so on would actively campaign against pyro.

Funny. Most of the firefighters at my department (120 or so) turned out to be pro-fireworks. And thats cause we're all pyros to some degree. But then start showing up with stuff in the trunk (yeah, nutz, I know) and these guys got more into fireworks than I figured they would. These guys all want the biggest stuff possible! So, you give 'em a little bit, and they want it all. And they are begging me to come out to their properties and their parties and do some shooting. So I think its safe to make the generalization that firefighters (not marshalls or chiefs) like pyro.

Quote:

Originally Posted by strobes

Its also does not help that most Fire Marshals....
The powers to be have too many reasons not to make them legal.

Yes, this is true. The fire marshalls and chiefs (not firefighters!) are anti-fireworks. And this is strictly for the political role these yahoo's are in. They feel like they gotta look good in the public eye and not disrupt the calm rut we're currently in. "God forbid we legalize fireworks in the state, let alone my jurisdiction."

So please dont group all firefighters together and say we're anti-fireworks. Cause I think I personally have proved that we're not. Many of us true firefighters (non-political types) are pyro's to some degree or another deep down, and fireworks just add to the fun!

nater219 · November 4th, 2009, 08:42 AM

That is a good point. Most of the guys on my department are also big pyros. They also want the biggest stuff possible. In fact there was a rack of 10 3" glass guns in someone's locker this morning. There are a couple former members of our department who shoot for Melrose.

I could see some of the firemen in AZ being worried about the dangers of wildfires.

strobes · November 4th, 2009, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by backdrft76

Funny. Most of the firefighters at my department (120 or so) turned out to be pro-fireworks. And thats cause we're all pyros to some degree. But then start showing up with stuff in the trunk (yeah, nutz, I know) and these guys got more into fireworks than I figured they would. These guys all want the biggest stuff possible! So, you give 'em a little bit, and they want it all. And they are begging me to come out to their properties and their parties and do some shooting. So I think its safe to make the generalization that firefighters (not marshalls or chiefs) like pyro.

Yes, this is true. The fire marshalls and chiefs (not firefighters!) are anti-fireworks. And this is strictly for the political role these yahoo's are in. They feel like they gotta look good in the public eye and not disrupt the calm rut we're currently in. "God forbid we legalize fireworks in the state, let alone my jurisdiction."

So please dont group all firefighters together and say we're anti-fireworks. Cause I think I personally have proved that we're not. Many of us true firefighters (non-political types) are pyro's to some degree or another deep down, and fireworks just add to the fun!

Your correct i should not generalize the average working guy, but their bosses for political reasons are more so the spokesmen for the whole dept and give the appearance that a whole dept is against it.
Commissioner John Brooks (CFD) for example is against use of pyro.

backdrft76 · November 4th, 2009, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strobes

Your correct i should not generalize the average working guy, but their bosses for political reasons are more so the spokesmen for the whole dept and give the appearance that a whole dept is against it.

You are totally correct. And it pretty much sucks when labor and management have differing positions yet managment's view always makes it to the press.

Quote:

Originally Posted by strobes

Commissioner John Brooks (CFD) for example is against use of pyro.

Yeah, he's a flamer. No pun intended.

mgh1980 · November 4th, 2009, 09:21 AM

Its funny you guys mention this, because of the firemen that I know and encountered at my work, they're all very very into pyro. The same holds true for the police. I know a few sheriffs and forest preserve officers, and they're very into it as well.

I think as you guys mentioned, politically it looks bad to make pyro legal. If you have ever encountered the 'do gooder' parents, they would definately be against this, and are very vocal to ther local politicians. It's funny, the kids yielded from these parents are terrorists in their own right, something about raising your kids based on the saying 'boys will be boys' will do this to you. These are the same parents who favor using bubble wrap instead of firecrackers on the fourth, and will proudly point out stats of firework injuries, etc, or will quote a video where a manican is staring into a 3 in mortar getting blown up.

John Ross · November 4th, 2009, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoctorG

To get an idea about how difficult that is...there is a buried thread someplace about some guy with some hot wife who worked to get conceal/carry laws passed in Missouri.(Sorry, I'm blanking) Ross??.

http://web.archive.org/web/200705011....net/ccw03.htm

And BTW I'm not married.

JR

DoctorG · November 4th, 2009, 10:39 AM

Thanks John

Troutmanx36 · November 4th, 2009, 12:08 PM

I think the only way this could work is if you were able to generate enough revenue to single handedly save the CTA with fireworks sales. If you could promise that and make it public, I think fireworks would become legal by the next 4th. However, I don't think anything can generate enough revenue to save the CTA.

mgh1980 · November 4th, 2009, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troutmanx36

I think the only way this could work is if you were able to generate enough revenue to single handedly save the CTA with fireworks sales. If you could promise that and make it public, I think fireworks would become legal by the next 4th. However, I don't think anything can generate enough revenue to save the CTA.

What, you mean selling off the parking meters, having some of the highest taxes in the country, overtaxing businesses, and rigging red light cams can't save the CTA?

November 3rd, 2009, 03:58 PM	#1
crazyskier537 Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 158	Meeting with IL "rulers" Sorry for starting a new thread, but I would just like to inform all that I will be meeting with IL powers to discuss and improve the current ban on all consumer fireworks. Any tips. __________________ Why drink and drive when you can smoke and fly? Willing to take ANY tubes off ANYONES hands, I'm really desperate... PM me

November 3rd, 2009, 04:14 PM	#2
pyrokid Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 344	Re: Meeting with IL "rulers" Cool! Why do you get to meet with them? Do you know someone?

November 3rd, 2009, 05:48 PM	#3
tcape Supporting Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Green Bay, WI Posts: 134	Re: Meeting with IL "rulers" Two words: Bribe them!

November 3rd, 2009, 06:15 PM	#4
Catfish25p2000 Supporting Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Where do you live? Posts: 190	Re: Meeting with IL "rulers" Good luck, do us proud!!! Go in there wearing a Blago wig. That should do it!!! __________________ Catfish25p2000 This is the greatest Country on earthLets celebrate!!

November 3rd, 2009, 07:06 PM	#5
myplanb31 Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: midwest Posts: 32	Re: Meeting with IL "rulers" Sick!! I hope they do something for us.

November 3rd, 2009, 07:13 PM	#6
mgh1980 Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: in a shack down by the river Posts: 640	Re: Meeting with IL "rulers" Good luck with that!! I agree, if you look at the amt of money that crosses the border into indiana and the neighboring states, it's huge. It's surprising why IL hasn't taken advantage of this, the tax revenue would be huge!! __________________ There are no stupid questions, just stupid people

November 3rd, 2009, 08:20 PM	#7
crazyskier537 Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 158	Re: Meeting with IL "rulers" I'm hoping to point out that Indiana is getting huge benefits that could be ours. Also I will show them various stasticsabout the improbability of firework mishap. The small portion of it happens anyway, whether or not fireworks are legal. I'm at least hoping for them to make it easier to apply for a 1.4g permit, or make fireworks legal around major holidays. First, I will be talking to mayor daily to get his opinion (partially for practice as well)... It might still be a couple weeks. MODS: Whoops, I think I should've posted this in laws, but it's fine here too because it is regarding 1.4g. __________________ Why drink and drive when you can smoke and fly? Willing to take ANY tubes off ANYONES hands, I'm really desperate... PM me

November 3rd, 2009, 08:24 PM	#8
stuntborg Moderator Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,484	Re: Meeting with IL "rulers" You may want to do a little background studing. The wrong words could hurt your cause more than help it. Read the thread on NYs fight to legalize. Dont use the argument "everyone does it anyway". Provide hard facts and statistics. __________________ I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. MEMBER PGI Charter Member PTPG Fargo, ND

November 3rd, 2009, 08:30 PM	#9
mgh1980 Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: in a shack down by the river Posts: 640	Re: Meeting with IL "rulers" there was another thread about this. Mayor Daley would be a dead end, this is the guy who had handguns banned in Chicago proper, as well as a host of other goofy legislation. Also you're asking his opinion to legalize pyro in a city where the average back yard is 10 x 10 ft. I'll be the first to agree that IL could make money off of this, but I agree with stunt that you have to go about this properly, and honestly, the laws probably won't change. Too many people still view pyro as evil __________________ There are no stupid questions, just stupid people

November 3rd, 2009, 08:32 PM	#10
crazyskier537 Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 158	Re: Meeting with IL "rulers" Thanks guys, all good advice. I know you guys would probly prefer strobes to do it, but noone has thought of it yet... Strobes-if you do want to do it, be my guest were all fighting for the same cause on the same side... __________________ Why drink and drive when you can smoke and fly? Willing to take ANY tubes off ANYONES hands, I'm really desperate... PM me

November 3rd, 2009, 08:40 PM	#11
r1dermon Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: northeast Posts: 1,231	Re: Meeting with IL "rulers" by the way...telling legislators or politicians that "accidents happen anyway" to support your case about fireworks being "safe" is probably a bad plan.

November 3rd, 2009, 08:46 PM	#12
JoeRatman Administrator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 6,592	Re: Meeting with IL "rulers" Moved to "Laws and Politics" forum. __________________ PGII Certified Licensed MN Outdoor Fireworks Operator Licensed MN Indoor/Proximate Fireworks Operator

November 3rd, 2009, 09:27 PM	#14
crazyskier537 Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 158	Re: Meeting with IL "rulers" ^^^ Everyone seems so certain. Keep em cumin... __________________ Why drink and drive when you can smoke and fly? Willing to take ANY tubes off ANYONES hands, I'm really desperate... PM me

November 4th, 2009, 05:25 AM	#17
yeagerb Moderator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Southwestern, Illinois Posts: 2,229	Re: Meeting with IL "rulers" Come on fella's....it may be a dead end, but never say NEVER. Being an Illinois citizen, the cold hard facts of this state is relatively simple: MONEY TALKS. We sell our Federal Senator seats to the highest bidder for goodness sake! Recommendations: Stick to the cold hard facts of revenue! Suggest that the money generated from 1.4g sales be earmarked to support FIRE SERVICES and LOCAL POLICE (you've now just turned 2 of the loudest opposition groups to your side) and of coarse make sure there is a special 1% sales tax added to all 1.4g sales exclusively for our State coffer (secret political talk for brib). If the revenue is there (especially during the 4th and New Year's), our legislators will vote it in.....forget about little Johnny blowing his hand off, my state rep's son/daughter needs that new Porsche for their ivy league college!!! __________________ BATFE Type 54 Permitted IL Lead Operator/Explosives License MO Operator License Voting Member, NFPA PGI Member & Certified Shooter Premier 1123 Trained, Mag Mgr & Pyrotechnician

November 4th, 2009, 05:56 AM	#19
mgh1980 Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: in a shack down by the river Posts: 640	Re: Meeting with IL "rulers" In addition to the ^^^ you have to appeal to the pocketbooks. IL has a huge debt, and tax increases abound, if you are able to present all of these facts and somehow come up with a number on tax revenue generated, you may have a very small chance. Again, as Dr. G said, you're going to need alot of info, stats, and influence. Good luck, as well __________________ There are no stupid questions, just stupid people

November 4th, 2009, 06:00 AM	#20
nater219 Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 247	Re: Meeting with IL "rulers" I agree with Doctor G. When Indiana changed their law, Fort Wayne enacted a ban about a month or two after the first fully legal 4th. If I recall, Phantom / BJ Alan was a key player in helping make IN change from our previous laws. Money was key, our concession was the 5% safety tax, this goes back to the fire department for training purposes. I'm sure plenty of people on this board recall the $2 "license" you had to apply for to buy aerials and firecrackers, then the promise to take them out of state or discharged in an approved shoot site. Baby steps might be the key. Over my life, we went from only having safe and sane available, then we could purchase out-of-state item, then we could light them in certain places approved by the AHJ, and finally they're all legal statewide, unless your city has a specific ban. Even then the ban does not apply during holidays. All this happened over than last 20+ years. (maybe longer, I'm 27).

November 4th, 2009, 08:42 AM	#23
nater219 Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 247	Re: Meeting with IL "rulers" That is a good point. Most of the guys on my department are also big pyros. They also want the biggest stuff possible. In fact there was a rack of 10 3" glass guns in someone's locker this morning. There are a couple former members of our department who shoot for Melrose. I could see some of the firemen in AZ being worried about the dangers of wildfires.

November 4th, 2009, 09:21 AM	#26
mgh1980 Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: in a shack down by the river Posts: 640	Re: Meeting with IL "rulers" Its funny you guys mention this, because of the firemen that I know and encountered at my work, they're all very very into pyro. The same holds true for the police. I know a few sheriffs and forest preserve officers, and they're very into it as well. I think as you guys mentioned, politically it looks bad to make pyro legal. If you have ever encountered the 'do gooder' parents, they would definately be against this, and are very vocal to ther local politicians. It's funny, the kids yielded from these parents are terrorists in their own right, something about raising your kids based on the saying 'boys will be boys' will do this to you. These are the same parents who favor using bubble wrap instead of firecrackers on the fourth, and will proudly point out stats of firework injuries, etc, or will quote a video where a manican is staring into a 3 in mortar getting blown up. __________________ There are no stupid questions, just stupid people

November 4th, 2009, 10:39 AM	#28
DoctorG Supporting Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,739	Re: Meeting with IL "rulers" Thanks John __________________ -2 cents

November 4th, 2009, 12:08 PM	#29
Troutmanx36 Supporting Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 458	Re: Meeting with IL "rulers" I think the only way this could work is if you were able to generate enough revenue to single handedly save the CTA with fireworks sales. If you could promise that and make it public, I think fireworks would become legal by the next 4th. However, I don't think anything can generate enough revenue to save the CTA.