Anti-Phantom (Not!)

[PyroBubba]

On a related thread, I noticed the old pro-Phantom/anti-Phantom argument has continued this year as in 2004 and 2005, with a new cast of characters. This gets tedious and is pointless, and I hope Colin will consider making this a stickie post at the top of this forum, so we don't have to go through the same nonsense in 2007.

The Argument

The argument usually starts with a newbie posting something like this:
"Wow, I just got back from Phantom and wow! What bargains! I got BOGO and a bunch of freebies and let me tell you all the great stuff I got for just $650."

And somebody else then replies along these lines:
"You stupid moron. Phantom sucks!"

Seventeen replies later, the battle lines are clearly drawn, feelings are hurt, names are called, etc. And this has been going on ever since I joined PyroU Forum. The arguments and name-calling are unnecessary and unhelpful, and I would like to try to clear things up. Let me start by making a few basic points:

1. Phantom has quality merchandise. Especially in terms of their 200-gram cakes like Emerald City, Rain of Fire, Blue-Ringed Willows and Silver Sonic Warhead, Phantom's merchandise has a good reputation, quality-wise. Their #500 Round Red Dahlia and the #500 "fluorescent" tube series are also highly praised, and my experience with Phantom shell kits has also been very good. So, if you're a pro-Phantom guy, nobody here is really arguing about the overall quality of their products -- it's good stuff.

2. Phantom prices are not bad ... for retail. When you figure in the BOGO and the freebies, Phantom's prices are roughly comparable to any other major fireworks retailer. So, again, pro-Phantom guys, nobody's criticizing Phantom for their overall pricing structure, as long as you're talking retail.

3. Phantom's color catalog is da bomb. Let's face it, the first time you saw that beautiful catalog, it was like the first time you saw Penthouse -- it's pyro-porn. So even if you're anti-Phantom, you've got to give them credit for the catalog.

4. The BOGO/freebie pitch is misleading. This, dear Phantom-lovers, is why some guys really hate Phantom. Today's Phantom-hater is probably a guy who, once upon a time, spent waaaayy too much money at Phantom, thinking to himself, "Wow! What great bargains! Buy One Get One Free!" Then, after they discover wholesale buying, they look back at their Phantom-buying days and feel like they got hustled and ripped off.

Calculating costs

Having once been a Phantom-lover -- who in July '04 needed some persuading to try wholesale buying for the first time -- I try not be harsh with Phantom-crazed newbies. I still occasionally buy Phantom stuff, and it's good stuff, and if money were no object, I might buy more of it. But assuming that you're not Bill Gates or Paris Hilton, you've got to learn to calculate the costs behind the BOGO/freebie regime aat Phantom.

To start with, there is no such thing as "free." The "Buy One Get One Free" slogan is just a psychologically appealing way of saying: "The price-per-item in the catalog is actually twice what we sell it for." As a sales gimmick, the BOGO encourages you to BUY MORE FIREWORKS, see? Because you can rationalize it to yourself by telling yourself you're getting a great bargain.

And the same is true of the "freebies." If you buy $650, you get a "free" $99.99 assortment (which, you are told, has an actual value of $161). So, suppose you had gone through the catalog and picked out $500 worth of stuff. You look at that next freebie and say to yourself, "Aw, why not? Spend another $150 and I'll get $100 more free!"

Why would Phantom give away "free" fireworks? Two words: Market share. If they can entice you into spending the maximum possible amount with them -- and then some -- Phantom can monopolize 100% of your fireworks budget. That means they can gain a competitive edge over rivals. It's the same reason Wal-Mart sells so cheap. It's Business 101: The bigger the business, the greater the efficiencies of scale. So you cut costs to the bone, sell cheap to grow the business, take a smaller margin of profit on a larger sales volume, enhancing the capital value of your business by increasing its market share.

But what does this mean to you, the fireworks consumer? It means that Phantom's pricing scheme (w/BOGO + freebies) makes it difficult for you to calculate your actual cost for any given item. Yeah, that cake is priced at $24.99, but you got BOGO, and then, because you spent over $250, they gave you a "free" 19-shot repeater ... and you got a cool T-shirt. So what did that $24.99 cake actually cost?

You don't know ... and that should bother you. Because all that really matters in the long run is: What did you pay, and what did you get?

Phantom vs. Wholesale: Direct comparisons

When you buy wholesale, you get more for your money -- period. Even with the BOGO and freebies, Phantom prices are at least twice as high (on a per-item basis) as wholesale. So if you're going to buy a lot of fireworks (e.g., over $500 a year), buying wholesale is definitely the way to go.

I'll make these comparisons using prices from Patriotic (in Maryland), but you can consult the Dealer Directory or ask around about the wholesale distributor nearest you.

For comparison's sake, we will use items from the Phantom catalog that we can match almost directly with items from Patriotic:

Whistling Buster (#G-239A, pg. 27 in 2006 catalog)
6-shell artillery kit, $19.99
w/BOGO = 12 shells / $19.99
= $1.67 per shell

Whistling Blaster (#23007)
6-shell artillery kit, case of 12 kits, $39.19
72 shells / $39.19
= $0.54 per shell

So, even with BOGO, you see, the Phantom whistling shells cost more than 3 times what you would pay wholesale.
- - - --

Large Happy Planets (#G-013A, pg. 14 in 2006 catalog)
36-shot cake, $6.99
w/BOGO = 2 cakes / $6.99
= $3.50 per cake

Happy Fireworks, Large (#19072)
36-shot cake, case of 24, $36.05
24 cakes / $36.05
= $1.50 per cake

So, even with BOGO, you're paying more than twice as much for the same 36-shot "Happy" cake at Phantom.
- - - - -

Wild West (Brothers Brand) (#G-101, p. 14 in 2006 catalog)
25-shot cake, $24.99
w/BOGO = 2 cakes / $24.99
= $12.50 per cake

Rodeo West (Glorious Brand) (#19018)
25-shot cake, case of 12, $73.64
12 cakes / $73.64
= $6.14 per cake

Again, even with BOGO, you're paying more than twice as much for the same cake at Phantom, compared to wholesale pricing. The price advantages for wholesale are so large, no $99 "freebie" can make up for it.

Common objections

At this point in the argument, the Phantom buyer will typically raise these objections:

1. Don't I need a license or something to buy wholesale?

Generally, no. Policies vary from dealer to dealer, but nearly every wholesale dealer will sell to the ordinary pyro, provided you meet their general requirements, such as minimum purchases, advance orders, etc.

2. What about minimum purchase requirements?

This varies greatly. Patriotic's minimum is $200, which isn't a lot for a serious pyro. Other dealers have minimums of $1,000 or more.

3. But I don't want 12 of this and 24 of that!

Fine. Go in with two or three buddies and split cases. Use the PyroU forum to get in touch with other pyros in your area and form a buying group. The more the merrier (as long as you know you're dealing with guys you can trust). If you've got a lot of guys in your buying group, you can get almost the exact number of every item you want, just as if you were shopping at a retail store. Oh, and wholesalers sometimes have assorted cases, and they sell assortments, too.

4. Yeah, but Phantom has freebies!

And retailers have volume discounts. For instance, at Patriotic, everything over $500 is 10% off regular wholesale, and everything over $1,000 is 15% off. If you pitch in with five or six other serious pyros to make a buy of $2,500 worth, your next purchase after that is 20% off.

5. Yeah, but Phantom's just 20 minutes from my house, what about the cost of traveling all the way to a wholesaler?

Good point. If you've got a retailer close by, the convenience factor is definitely there. And if it's a long drive to the nearest wholesale dealer, you've got to add the gas money to the total cost. That's another argument for joining up with a buying group. If you've got 6 guys going in together, and one of you has a truck with a camper top, or maybe a trailer, everybody can chip in together on the gas on a big order, and that will minimize your overall transportation costs.

Go wholesale for 2007

All these objections fade into significance, however, when you figure that you're buying at less than half of Phantom prices. Or, to put it another way, for the same amount of money, you'll get twice as much fireworks.

You're a newbie, and you spent way to much at Phantom this year and ... well, it's too late now, right? Don't sweat it. Enjoy your 2006 show, but just make up your mind to go wholesale for 2007 ... and start thinking about the possibilities.

Hmmm, if I get two cases of Excals and a full case of Critical Acclaim, and order 300 HDPE tubes from PyroGear .... then two cases of Amazing Ballet ....

[GAUGE]

Great job on this.

[Pyroman6000]

Good job, Bubba!

I have 1 other point to add here:

multiples of one item Now that I went and tried wholesale, I find myself thinking in terms of multiples. Especially with the small 200g cakes, doing groups or fronts is so much more impressive! For instance, I love the little 16 shotters from Bros and Glorious, like Super Stallion and Space Fantasy. For purposes of doing a show, however, shot singly, they fare badly against larger 200 gram cakes, and especially 500g 's and shells. Shoot em in groups and you bring back the WOW factor in a big way! Combine em with a rack or two of shells, and you have a multi-layer mini finale! This is because when you shoot several at once, you increase your rate of fire- the more cakes you shoot, the more shots going up at once!

I used this priciple to build a damn nice finale, for not too much money or effort! Fusing together 12. 25 shot cakes into 1 mega cake gave me a darn good approximation of a professional finale. Topped with 30 shells fused together, and ended with a 10 shot fan, and I blew MYSELF away! I used the best part of an assorted case, with a couple subs for more variety. It took me a lot less time and gave me better results, than if i were to try and fuse together 300 or so consumer shells, and try to get it to burn fast enough!

There is the secret to why we don't always mind getting a bunch of one item! Especially if it is one we like a lot, and know we will use a lot of. One other point in wholesale's favor- you don't necessarily have to shoot all of the items now! If you have a safe place to store them, they're there for other shoots, or as 1 thing you won't have to buy next time- freeing your $$ up for other items.

[tn-dave]

Good post Bubba. You need to think about writing for a living

Pyroman makes a great point. Firing cakes in multiples makes a HUGE difference in making your show look more impressive.
The only cakes I won't be firing at least four of this year are the big 500g cakes like Amazing Ballet and Peacock.

[pyro_casper_sgv]

Thank you for that post Bubba!

[PyroBubba]

multiples of one item Now that I went and tried wholesale, I find myself thinking in terms of multiples. ...

There is the secret to why we don't always mind getting a bunch of one item! ... you don't necessarily have to shoot all of the items now! If you have a safe place to store them, they're there for other shoots, or as 1 thing you won't have to buy next time- freeing your $$ up for other items.

Agreed. And, oh, man, how I wish I had back the "leftover" stash I lost in the Great Raid of October '05! But live and learn ...

What you say about combos is right. You might want to try doing "W" angle combinations with 3 cakes. Or doing like we did on our finales and shooting from three stations spread out >50ft. apart.

Something I was going to add above: Buying cases of shells is extra-cool because you're always going to have leftovers. And after a while, you can build up a "reserve" of 100-200 "leftover" shells, so that any time somebody has something to celebrate, it's easy to load up some racks and shoot off 50 shells. Halloween, Super Bowl, birthdays, whatever. And since you're paying just 50-75 cents per shell, that's a pretty cheap treat.

Also: Saving up the leftover cardboard tubes to make "poor man's racks" is another cool thing about buying shell kits by the case.

[Supdawg]

Good stuff as usual...

[Aric]

This is intelligence of the highest degree in journalism but there are some other points here which are concerning me.

Something is bothering me regarding going wholesale and this is getting into a troubling situation regarding the authorities because it is looking like I am going to be unable in obtaining a permission form signature because someone is needing connections for this here I am guessing?

Neighbors are some of the nosiest people and seeing this coming to a residential area is going to be attracting some attention and nothing good is going to be coming of this because I am thinking of Thomas!

Someone farthest from a wholesaler is going to be using shipping options and these are going to be costing a ridiculous amount of cash also! These are things concerning me here is all.

[SEAHAWK]

Good post Bubba. You need to think about writing for a living

Didn't you help write a book bubba? Politics and stuff? I don't remember much about it.

[PyroBubba]

Didn't you help write a book bubba? Politics and stuff? I don't remember much about it.

LOL ... since you asked:
DONKEY CONS

But check out our BUY TWO special!

[Supdawg]

LOL ... since you asked:
DONKEY CONS

But check out our BUY TWO special!

I've been meaning to ask. How are sales doing?

[Aric]

Can someone please be helping me regarding those problems on the last question?

Thanks again!

[graybeard]

Aric, as to your question on buying wholesale; If you are in an illegal jurisdiction, and your backing a trailer up to your garage and unloading large quantities of goods, then you are asking for trouble. The more illegal material you have, the more trouble you are in, including a chance of having the Bomb Squad and the Police Chief put on a dog and pony show in your driveway, for the six o'clock news. The large quantity, will also go more toward actual charges being filed, as opposed to simple confiscation, as might happen when you get caught with a small quantity of items in a small backyard show on the 4th of July.

As for having goods shipped into an illegal jurisdiction as part of a wholesale buy; Aside from high shipping charges, your risk of legal problems are even higher. Many states have court injunctions against common carriers (trucking companies), requiring them to report all shipments of fireworks to local authorities. Your shipment of goods could arrive with a convoy of cop cars....film at eleven.

[dubfish]

I have a question, been lurking for a while.....why do people who don't like, or shop at Phantom, spend so much time talking about why they don't like, or shop at Phantom. At some point, are you just talking to hear yourself talk? Before you get all emo with the, "I'm just trying to inform newbies....." etc....take a look at how much unsolicited advice is tossed around here.

Of course I am not talking about every member on this board, and I have the utmost respect for your pyro savvy, honestly. But come on, why be so persistent all the time? Not everyone holds the same fanatacism as you may. If some "Fourth of July Warrior" talks about a great deal they got at Phantom, what's the harm?

[Aric]

One reason I am sticking with retail I am guessing?

[Dounut]

heh well i guess i'm one of those noobies that shops at phantom but i was thinknig about wholesale for '07. I live in MD just south of baltimore and was wondering where a good place to buy wholesale is around here. My budget's probably borderline at $500 though. I'd like it to be someplace I can drive to and pick up my goods.

[JoeRatman]

I have a question, been lurking for a while.....why do people who don't like, or shop at Phantom, spend so much time talking about why they don't like, or shop at Phantom. At some point, are you just talking to hear yourself talk?

Well, I think it is because pyros want to help other pyros. Many of these people started out buying at Phantom. Then they became "enlightened" or "better educated" or "more experienced" and found other places and ways where they could purchase good fireworks for less money. Pyros tend to be rather "enthusiastic" about their hobby and rather "evangelistic" about it at times. I guess you have to be a "bit crazy" (excentric?) to do pyro. They can be pretty zealous about their favorite products (Excalls, Smoke and Mirros, Critical Acclaims, Mambas, etc.) and can get into rather heated discussion about various products. If you look on the forum, you will find that Pyros talk a lot about a lot pyro products and places and not just Phantom. But the operatative words are "talk alot". We can bore non-Pyro people rather quickly with our pyro talk. If a pyro finds a good product or good price he wants to let other Pyros know. By the same token, if they find something that is expensive or "not a good deal" or of poor quality, they want to let other pyros know as well. Generally, the attitude is "been there, done that and look over here because here is something better". They are trying to tell you what they learned so you don't have to actually waste time and money to experience what they experienced. Generally, I don't think the response is "condesending" or done with a "you stupid newbie" attitude or you "stupid sucker, you got screwed". It is more "avoid that, so you can avoid the bad experience I had."

[pyrochris]

This is intelligence of the highest degree in journalism but there are some other points here which are concerning me.

Something is bothering me regarding going wholesale and this is getting into a troubling situation regarding the authorities because it is looking like I am going to be unable in obtaining a permission form signature because someone is needing connections for this here I am guessing?

Neighbors are some of the nosiest people and seeing this coming to a residential area is going to be attracting some attention and nothing good is going to be coming of this because I am thinking of Thomas!

Someone farthest from a wholesaler is going to be using shipping options and these are going to be costing a ridiculous amount of cash also! These are things concerning me here is all.

Shipping is free from where i buy from, and gets to you within a week tops.

Great post Bubba this should help clean up the phantom dispute.

[shrapnel]

Chris, I seriously doubt the shipping is free. You are paying for it somewhere whether in creative pricing or hidden costs. How do their prices compare to Victory, Millers or Hales? I'm willing to bet your secret source that apperently you don't wish to share is about 20% higher than true wholesale, hence the free shipping.

[MTPG13]

Chris, I seriously doubt the shipping is free. You are paying for it somewhere whether in creative pricing or hidden costs. How do their prices compare to Victory, Millers or Hales? I'm willing to bet your secret source that apperently you don't wish to share is about 20% higher than true wholesale, hence the free shipping.

He's talking about Superior Fireworks wholesale. I've only ordered retail from them so I'm not sure how their wholesale is.

Matt

[jman]

I have a question, been lurking for a while.....why do people who don't like, or shop at Phantom, spend so much time talking about why they don't like, or shop at Phantom. At some point, are you just talking to hear yourself talk? Before you get all emo with the, "I'm just trying to inform newbies....." etc....take a look at how much unsolicited advice is tossed around here.

Of course I am not talking about every member on this board, and I have the utmost respect for your pyro savvy, honestly. But come on, why be so persistent all the time? Not everyone holds the same fanatacism as you may. If some "Fourth of July Warrior" talks about a great deal they got at Phantom, what's the harm?

We just want to help guys like you see that there is a better way and better deals than phantom. Thats all. I used to bash phantom but dont anymore because it is pointless. I would personally only pay phantom prices if they were my last available source of fireworks. Like many, I buy wholesale and get great deals so I just cant give much for retail and still feel good about it. From what I've learned about phantom, they are on the frontline in the court systems defending all 1.4g consumer fireworks and they spend lots of money and work hard to keep them available to the american citizen. For that, I truely am grateful to their company. If someone thinks they get a great deal at phantom, thats fine with me, but if you post it on this forum for all of us hardcore pyros to see, we dont see it as a great deal at all instead we see a rip off and you really shouldnt expect a pat on the back. Example. I buy wholesale and where someone gives $75-$100 for a 500g cake, I get at least 2 cases consisting of 8 cakes for around $80-$90. So lets compare. Phantom buyer has 1 500g cake and no money left. Wholesale buyer has 8 500g cakes and 10-15 dollars to put back in his pocket. Now I know that retail isnt the same all over the USA and we here in the south are very lucky when it comes to fireworks and pricing. I can buy cakes like Roboshot, Aerial Dynamite, Blond Joke, BC Megatrons, and many many others for $21.88 retail all day long. Even our retail here is lower than alot of wholesale pricing in the USA. I know the guys out West give more wholesale than I do retail sometimes so proximity has alot to do with what you give also. Anyway, hope this helps you see the hardcore pyros side of it, BTW, this is meant as an informative post to try to help phantom folks see why some of us feel the way we do. This is in no way a lash back at you for your post so please dont take it that way.

[DennyMo]

He's talking about Superior Fireworks wholesale. I've only ordered retail from them so I'm not sure how their wholesale is.

Matt

Shipping there is free if you order $500+ retail, but I don't see any indication of free shipping at any $ level for wholesale. As for how they can afford to ship free, their retail price for "NOAB" (handy acronym, glad I finally found out what it stands for...) is roughly triple ATF's wholesale. I didn't do a complete comparison, but my spot checks showed their wholesale prices to be about double ATF's wholesale.

[PyroInTheMaking]

heh well i guess i'm one of those noobies that shops at phantom but i was thinknig about wholesale for '07. I live in MD just south of baltimore and was wondering where a good place to buy wholesale is around here. My budget's probably borderline at $500 though. I'd like it to be someplace I can drive to and pick up my goods.

Haha, wholesale in Maryland, ask Bubba about that one.

At least we can buy cases of fountains!!

[Aric]

This is showing the reasoning for some people being unable in going wholesale!

Consumer Fireworks in Maryland?

[adultuser]

This is showing the reasoning for some people being unable in going wholesale!

Consumer Fireworks in Maryland?

Actually, this is a great thread for newbies to the wholesale world.
I have been shooting displays with my best friend for over 15 years. We started out making the trip to Phantom about 12 years ago. The 10 hour round trip became a right of passage where we'd both be able to get together and spend some quality time together. The trip became as much a part of the tradition as the shoot on the 4th.
Over the past 3 years, we have debated the wholesale switch, but always found our way back to Phantom. The pros were we knew the product inside and out, the website and catalogue were addicting and the freebies always made us feel like we were getting a good deal. Finally, after last year's shoot we sat down and crunched the numbers. On our to do list, which we always compile on the 5th, we put in bold large letters- DO WHOLESALE, NOT PHANTOM DUE TO PRICE.
Well, I'm still going through withdrawal, but we stuck to our guns and didn't go to Phantom. We went to Maryland (5 hour round trip) and shopped at Elkton, then went to Patriotic. Our main concern was buying in bulk, we didn't think we could get enough of a variety. We quickly overcame that concern with the benefit of doubling cakes, and actually were surprised at the variety that we still ended up with. With an expenditure of roughly 1500.00, we have a great stash with plenty of stuff left for next year (we always say that and never seem to have anything left ), but this year it is very true.
Also, in our opinion, we found Patriotic to be a great place in MD with great deals and friendly service. We did not find the same about Elkton in the least.
So for us, we are now officially into wholesale and are big Patriotic fans. No excaliburs and we are trying smoke and mirrors, which happily seem to be popular here.

[PyroBubba]

Well, I think it is because pyros want to help other pyros. Many of these people started out buying at Phantom. Then they became "enlightened" or "better educated" or "more experienced" and found other places and ways where they could purchase good fireworks for less money. ...
Generally, I don't think the response is "condesending" or done with a "you stupid newbie" attitude or you "stupid sucker, you got screwed". It is more "avoid that, so you can avoid the bad experience I had."

Thanks for those remarks, Joe.

I repeat, I am not anti-Phantom. But the larger your annual fireworks budget, the greater your incentive to buy wholesale -- even if you still spend part of your budget at Phantom.

A Trip to Phantom

Last year, I specifically wanted a few Phantom products. They've got a wide variety of rockets, for instance, including Powerdomes and Blue Streaks, that I wanted to use in my racks, to supplement what I'd bought elsewhere: KAR76s, Glittering Willows, and MT 4 Beasts. I also wanted Emerald City & Ring of Fire cakes, plus several #500 tubes, including the RRDs, and I wanted some of Phantom's Small Festival Balls, which are much better than generic SFBs. Some friends also wanted some Phantom products, and so I went with a shopping list.

This is an important suggestion about Phantom shopping: Set a budget, make a list, and (try to) stick to it. Base your purchases on careful study of the products, including videos and reviews by trusted Pyro-buddies. If you go into Phantom without a list, you will spend more than you planned, and not necessarily get the most bang for your buck.

When I got to Phantom, however, I noticed that many other shoppers were shopping for fireworks the way my wife shops for clothes: "Oh, look at that! Isn't that pretty!" Or calling over a store employee (a seasonal hire who doesn't really know much about fireworks) to ask for recommendations. Other shoppers had a sales flier or catalog in their hands, and seemed to think that the prices advertised in these catalogs were super-duper-extra-special.

It is a sad thing to see such people roll their carts through the rocket aisle at Phantom -- people who don't know that Thundersticks and Blue Streaks are the best rocket values in the store. And then later I was standing by an entire shelf of Round Red Dahlia tubes -- the best tube on the market, IMHO -- and people were just rolling their carts right past me, and picking up some #200 and #300 tubes which had been negatively reviewed by several PUForum contributors.

Saddest of all, however, was as I was packing my carefully-selected Phantom purchases into my vehicle in the parking lot. I'd hear some commotion over by the store exit and look up to see, for instance, two guys loading multiple boxes of Phantom products into a big truck or SUV.

I could see they had spent $1,000, $1,500 or more, and it literally hurt me to know that, if those guys had spent the same amount at a wholesaler, they could have gotten more than twice the quantity of fireworks. Just go to any wholesaler's price list, calculate discounts and specials, and figure what you could get for $1,500 -- a similar amount would cost $3,000-$3,500 at Phantom! But every day in June, guys drive off the Phantom lot after making a $1,000+ purchase, and think they've gotten a tremendous bargain.

Not only that, but because such shoppers limited their shopping to a single retailer, their 4th of July show would not have Glorious-brand products like Gold Dust or Waterfall or Aquatini. Nor would they have WC Excalibur shells, or AFW High Stepper, or Amazing Ballet or Red Sky or Plum Crazy or Peacock or .... you see?

Pyros Help Pyros

If you're going to shoot a $1,000+ show for the 4th, it only makes sense to make at least some of your purchases wholesale. I still spent over $300 at Phantom last year, simply because they had some exclusive products I wanted -- and I just love the fun of visiting a big fireworks retail store.

So Joe Ratman, as usual, is exactly right: When a pyro urges you to investigate the possibility of buying wholesale, he is only trying to help you. This is what Pyro Universe is all about -- pyros helping pyros, motivated purely by a love of fireworks. Everything I know about fireworks I learned either on PU, or from friends I met through PU.

I never could have done anything like what I shot in July 2005, without the help of my many, many Pyro Buddies. On the day of my show, I ran out of quick visco for my finale boards, and a PU buddy drove to my house to deliver it. The camera operator? A PU buddy, who made a special trip for the occasion, and helped set up the finale stations -- as darkness was falling, the crowd was waiting, and I was in a state of near-panic.

Ask Jeff Wilson and some of the other old hands here how long it took them -- during my first few visits here, in summer 2004 -- to convince me that I should consider buying wholesale. I resisted it, simply because the idea was strange to me. But by December 2004, I was a wholesale-buying MANIAC!

I learned to trust my Pyro Buddies, and I therefore urge you to trust me when I tell you this:

The first time you unpack that vehicle, after buying your first few cases of wholesale fireworks, then empty your cases and pose a "stash photo" -- friend, when you look at that big stack of fireworks and say to yourself, "Wow, that only cost me $300!" -- you are going to be totally hooked on wholesale. I guarantee it!

To Pyro In the Making:

Patriotic does not sell to Maryland residents. And given my own experience, I would strongly suggest that you avoid possession of 1.4G in Maryland. But you have good friends or family members in other states who like fireworks. These out-of-state residents can buy as much as they want at Patriotic. And then you can go visit your out-of-state friends for the 4th of July, and pay them for the opportunity of shooting off their fireworks. (Such payment could even be made in advance of the purchase.)

So if you live in Maryland, your access to Patriotic would have to be secondary, involving people who do not live in Maryland. I'm sure you have out-of-state friends and family, but ... do they love fireworks? Would they drive to Maryland and buy fireworks by the case? If not, then you must make new friends -- out-of-state, firework-loving friends.

I wonder where you could make friends like that? Where in all the Universe could you find a Pyro friend? Try to think of such venue -- a Forum, if you will -- where you might make new friends who don't live in Maryland, but might be interested in purchasing fireworks from Patriotic.

And then, of course, because you would never violate the laws of the so-called "Free State," you would have to visit your out-of-state friends and shoot their fireworks.

Hypothetically, of course.

[Aric]

Pyrobubba,


This is sounding interesting but I am afraid of getting into a troubling situation such as the authorities busting me and this is no fun as I am sure someone here is able to be backing me up on these feelings?

I am guessing the reasoning I am using them so much is for their products standards. I am not thinking about their questionable manner of dealing products to people which are inexperienced in purchasing Consumer Fireworks and this is a reason for people being hateful of them which is understandable here.

Shopping there or other retailers is hilarious though when loading a basket to the ceiling and people are starting thinking someone is insane for purchasing this amount of products!

[PyroInTheMaking]

To Pyro In the Making:

Patriotic does not sell to Maryland residents. And given my own experience, I would strongly suggest that you avoid possession of 1.4G in Maryland. But you have good friends or family members in other states who like fireworks. These out-of-state residents can buy as much as they want at Patriotic. And then you can go visit your out-of-state friends for the 4th of July, and pay them for the opportunity of shooting off their fireworks. (Such payment could even be made in advance of the purchase.)

So if you live in Maryland, your access to Patriotic would have to be secondary, involving people who do not live in Maryland. I'm sure you have out-of-state friends and family, but ... do they love fireworks? Would they drive to Maryland and buy fireworks by the case? If not, then you must make new friends -- out-of-state, firework-loving friends.

I wonder where you could make friends like that? Where in all the Universe could you find a Pyro friend? Try to think of such venue -- a Forum, if you will -- where you might make new friends who don't live in Maryland, but might be interested in purchasing fireworks from Patriotic.

And then, of course, because you would never violate the laws of the so-called "Free State," you would have to visit your out-of-state friends and shoot their fireworks.

Hypothetically, of course.

Hypothetically that is a great idea!

But it was not me who was talking about buying wholesale in Maryland, rather it was Dounut.

I know my boundaries, S&S only, except for my little venture to SC that might be happening.

[Dounut]

Heh well I like many of you in the past have never heard of the idea of buying wholesale until this year so i didnt know if it was a good idea with a budget of $500 or if it was even possible because of where i live :/

Or is it even a good idea at all to shoot off fireworks?!?! I don't know anymore!

[kou]

Some may think price comparisons are just Phantom versus wholesale or Phantom versus Jeff Wilson but it's really not. Phantom, in my quad-state area, is definitely a high priced and limited selection retailer if there ever was one. They're not the worst, but they are up there with other local stores I identify as "rip offs".

In Wisconsin, there's Uncle Sam less than 2 hours away that sells 500g $19-34 each, Victory 2.5 hours away $19-35 (retail) for 500 grammers, or Fireworks City Lomira with 500g cakes that outperform Phantom's starting at $29 each.

An hour away in Indiana, Boomtown of Dyer has 500g starting at $19; many other retailers have black box artillery kits starting as low as $4 per kit, #500 tubes starting at 8.50 each.

In Missouri, Boomlands sell 500g for $15-30 each and they have a selection like you've never seen.

If I expand to a 5th state, well ATF in Kentucky does sell single pieces at very very low retail prices although they are better known for their wholesale business.

To sum up this post, at least in the 4-5 states I buy fireworks, there are many cheaper retail options. So depending on where you are you might not have to go wholesale to get more bang for your buck. I mostly buy wholesale now, but each year I might drop 500-700 on retail just to test stuff or get in a quick fix. Almost none of that retail budget goes to Phantom, not because I have something against them but because there are better options everywhere I go.