Meeting with IL "rulers"

[DoctorG]

how are they rigging RL cameras??

[mgh1980]

how are they rigging RL cameras??

From what I've been reading is that some of the signals could have a yellow light that is shortened, thus if you're in the intersection, if the yellow light is on, and flips to red, technically, you're a red light violator. The other trick here is that they could get you for turning right on red. I got one for this, and to make a long story short, it was such a PITA to fight, for which I don't have the time and patience for, that I ended up paying for it.

[pyrokid]

To make a long story short, it was such a PITA to fight, for which I don't have the time and patience for, that I ended up paying for it.

That is no accident .

[nater219]

It's been a couple of years, but one of the cameras on the Skyway sent a ticket for not paying a toll to a county police car. It took a while for the county to get the ticket cleared even though GPS records proved the car was not anywhere close to Chicago during the alleged incident. Also, the picture sent with the ticket was clearly not a police car.

[yeagerb]

Every couple of years the local news interviews Missourians in St. Louis who start randomly getting tickets from the City of Chicago for everything from parking to speeding to toll violations. All of the folks interviewed on TV have never been to Chicago (and some even Illinois) in their life and after mailing a copy of these "tickets" to the Missouri States Attorney, it's always explained away as "a computer glitch".

Absolute power, corrupts absolutely!

[strobes]

I'm at least hoping for them to make it easier to apply for a 1.4g permit, or make fireworks legal around major holidays.

Its actually rather easy to get a permit, it all comes down to how far away from Chicago you are.
What i mean by that is the collar counties are way less strict. If you have a nice sized chunk of land, thats half the battle right there.

[richiem74]

Here's an example of the non-sense you will run into when anything "pro" fireworks starts going through the legislature:
http://www.ifsa.org/News_Info/President_May_2005.html

[fireworkfan504]

my advice is too try the worse thing they can do is say no but,what you have too do is go there in with as many facts and stats as you can find and try to convince them that fireworks are safe the only thing I can see is that there are so many people against fireworks that it may not work but,you can try and who knows it might work, one last thing maybe you could pitch the idea of it becoming a s&s sate at least it would be something that you could shoot

[Richard]

I've read all the suggestions and I have to agree that legalization will not come overnight. I've fought for it in New York for 30+ years. It will take many letters and perserverance on the part of dedicated individuals. You would need to convince some large fireworks manufacturer to hire a lobbyist to help. They don't come cheap. Try to enlist the aid of any influential individual who is in the pro-consumer fireworks camp. I was fortunate enough to gain the ear of the governor's office to at least listen. I found that sales tax revenue is only part of the battle. Injuries and fires are important to the powers that be. I can't stress enough the importance of working with your local representatives since you're a constituent. Praying also works for me.

[r1dermon]

the tough part is getting the media on your side...if you can find a media outlet that will air the overwhelming statistics in favor of fireworks, you'll get more public support.

[richiem74]

Here's what I'm thinking: have one of the Indian Tribes buy 20 acres in Will or Kankakee county. It then becomes exempt from state and local laws, so you can go there and for a small fee buy and shoot fireworks any time you want.

[DoctorG]

Here's what I'm thinking: have one of the Indian Tribes buy 20 acres in Will or Kankakee county. It then becomes exempt from state and local laws, so you can go there and for a small fee buy and shoot fireworks any time you want.

I think you'll be having a bunch of IL Pyro's checking into their lineage for Navaho, Pawnee, Shawnee, etc...

[steve s]

I've read all the suggestions and I have to agree that legalization will not come overnight. I've fought for it in New York for 30+ years. It will take many letters and perserverance on the part of dedicated individuals. You would need to convince some large fireworks manufacturer to hire a lobbyist to help. They don't come cheap. Try to enlist the aid of any influential individual who is in the pro-consumer fireworks camp. I was fortunate enough to gain the ear of the governor's office to at least listen. I found that sales tax revenue is only part of the battle. Injuries and fires are important to the powers that be. I can't stress enough the importance of working with your local representatives since you're a constituent. Praying also works for me.

I agree with Richard. He understands the legislative process. You cannot just go into a meeting with some facts about safety and taxes and expect to get any real results. There are people who are professionals at writing laws and getting audiences with legislators. Use all of your available resources.

IMHO you are not nearly ready to start. I suggest that in order to even have any real chance you must get help and help cost money. I think you should start there. RAISE MONEY. In order to do this you need to be organized, and you will need the help of other supporters of your cause who are willing to give time and money to fight for something that may never happen.

Most importantly, approach theses opportunities with solutions not problems. Whether you trying to get laws changed or asking your boss for a day off, have a solution to the problem before you enter the meeting. Do not just show up and expect decision makers to do the work for you. You must know exactly what you are asking for and have a solution for getting it done. It is much easier to approve something (day off, yes vote on new law) than it is to find solution to the problem (find coverage, research and write legislation). You are always more likely to get a positive result when you make it easy for those from whom you are asking.

I applaud your efforts. This type of discussion is what makes this country great !!!! Try to focus on what can help you and avoid unnecessary and harmful discussions of corruption and bribery. If you start on a positive path, work hard and have realistic expectations you can get it done.

When you have set up a legitimate fund to pay for your efforts let me know. I would be honored to contribute to a cause that supports the safe and legal use of consumer fireworks.

Steve

[richiem74]

That being said as it was suggested it might be a good idea to coordinate your effort with some of the big names in the industry, BJ Alan, the Sheltons, and on the more local level, the Kaplans. I'm not saying have them finance your effort, but if you could get them to start their own effort and then start your own grass roots effort, I think there is a better chance of getting something done.

[yeagerb]

I agree with Richard. He understands the legislative process. You cannot just go into a meeting with some facts about safety and taxes and expect to get any real results. There are people who are professionals at writing laws and getting audiences with legislators. Use all of your available resources.

IMHO you are not nearly ready to start. I suggest that in order to even have any real chance you must get help and help cost money. I think you should start there. RAISE MONEY. In order to do this you need to be organized, and you will need the help of other supporters of your cause who are willing to give time and money to fight for something that may never happen.

Most importantly, approach theses opportunities with solutions not problems. Whether you trying to get laws changed or asking your boss for a day off, have a solution to the problem before you enter the meeting. Do not just show up and expect decision makers to do the work for you. You must know exactly what you are asking for and have a solution for getting it done. It is much easier to approve something (day off, yes vote on new law) than it is to find solution to the problem (find coverage, research and write legislation). You are always more likely to get a positive result when you make it easy for those from whom you are asking.

I applaud your efforts. This type of discussion is what makes this country great !!!! Try to focus on what can help you and avoid unnecessary and harmful discussions of corruption and bribery. If you start on a positive path, work hard and have realistic expectations you can get it done.

When you have set up a legitimate fund to pay for your efforts let me know. I would be honored to contribute to a cause that supports the safe and legal use of consumer fireworks.

Steve

IMHO - This is were PGI fails us....having stated that before I come across as anti-PGI. I disagree with that....I am a big supporter of PGI, but I feel that PGI should activitely particpate more in fund raising and donations to buy the professional lobbiest at the State and Federal levels. In support of this, I have quietly paid my every raising annual dues to PGI in hopes they come around and begin hiring the professionals. Sure, I have not made it to a PGI event....more of poor timing with my employer vs anti-PGI.

End the end, the law does NOT come down to safety, it comes down to MONEY! As if it were a pure safety issue, the following would be illegal:

1) Automobiles of all kinds........responsible for 50,000+ deaths a year
2) Bicycles of all kinds.......responsible for deaths and injuries to kids
3) Electricity..........responsible for all sorts of injuries and deaths
4) Swimming/Boating.......over 500 deaths a year annually
5) Petrochemical refining.......major source of carncers and diseases
6) Alcohol.....we've been there, done that!

Fund raising is the big issue. I though there was a donation setup for the FireFox vs CPSC??? Anyone got a link?

[steve s]

I am saddened that this thread seems to have died out. I did not intend for my comments to be a thread killer. I was attempting to help point Crazy in a positive direction.

I hope that you did still have your meeting and I think we would all like to know the results of your meeting.

[yeagerb]

With Gov Quinn wanting to raise IL income tax, now may be an opportune time to introduce a "legalize fireworks to increase sales revenue" legislation......let the allmighty dollar talk!

[matski35]

I'd rather see cremora changed from a "flame" effect to a 1.3 item. I don't see why cremoras need to be considered a flame effect. I know people in Illinois do cremoras in their shows without any flame effect license...

[strobes]

Mr. Skier, what ever happened to your meetings?

IMHO - This is were PGI fails us....having stated that before I come across as anti-PGI. I disagree with that....I am a big supporter of PGI, but I feel that PGI should activitely particpate more in fund raising and donations to buy the professional lobbiest at the State and Federal levels. In support of this, I have quietly paid my every raising annual dues to PGI in hopes they come around and begin hiring the professionals. Sure, I have not made it to a PGI event....more of poor timing with my employer vs anti-PGI.

Boe, PGI wants to hire a lobbying firm but to be even slightly effective on just the federal level its gonna cost 250k a year.
The PGI as a club dont have the funds for that nor a large enough membership to even take on a battle like that.

When it comes to failure, generally the whole industry is filled with self serving pricks. Very few want to be team players and the rest only care about themselves.

If the importers/wholesalers/retailers followed the NRA model, we would have millions upon millions of dollars to fight the good fight.

[cexshun]

Mr. Skier, what ever happened to your meetings?


Boe, PGI wants to hire a lobbying firm but to be even slightly effective on just the federal level its gonna cost 250k a year.
The PGI as a club dont have the funds for that nor a large enough membership to even take on a battle like that.

When it comes to failure, generally the whole industry is filled with self serving pricks. Very few want to be team players and the rest only care about themselves.

If the importers/wholesalers/retailers followed the NRA model, we would have millions upon millions of dollars to fight the good fight.

Right. The company that single handedly, by far, does the most for firework legalization is Phantom. Yet we encourage people not to spend money there. Instead, we encourage people to dump money into the PGI which does very little, if any, work to legalize pyro.

Something about this equation doesn't sit well with me. We need to do more then private bitching and complaining to save our hobby.

[r1dermon]

perhaps the PGI should team up with phantom to create a war machine...the rocketry community defeated the ATF through donations and their own funds, not on the back of a rocketry vendor/company taking up the legal battle. the NAR/tripoli rocket associations are non-profit, membership based clubs, and through membership dues and donations, they were able to raise enough money to fend off offensive advances of the ATF for more regulation. i think that type of things works best, since the NAR/tripoli are serving the rocketry communities interests, instead of their own corporate interests.

[stuntborg]

The PGI is a hobbiest fireworks club. It is not a 1.4 industry orginization. It is not a 1.3 industry orginization. Its a hobbiest club. Always keep that in mind. Now, if you think the PGI should be moving in a different direction then the best thing to do is to get involved. Join the PGI, attend the convention, attend the business meetings, make contacts, learn the orginization, run for office, MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!! Don't sit and complain about what its not. It is nothing more than a group of people with a common interest. Those people can be mobilized to do much given the proper leadership.

[cexshun]

As a whole, I'd be blown away if any pyro club makes any moves to help legalize pyro. I suspect that much of a pyro club's funds comes from membership dues of people that cannot legally shoot. They join the club so that they can shoot legally, free from law enforcement interference. Legalizing fireworks would put many of the clubs in jeopardy. If any real change is made, it's going to be from a manufacturing giant like Phantom, and grassroots communities like Pyro Universe.

[countryboy7978]

I have to put my 2 cents in here....

I agree about Phantom being a great asset to the pyro community and you have never and will never hear me utter a negative thing about Phantom. They have and had great products and anyone who doesn't think so either has never shopped there, has an axe to grind, or simply has jumped on the bandwagon. Their pricing is not bad for retail, I'm sorry to those who disagree but it's not. $24.00 for two top quality cakes (as good as Brothers, World Class, UP, or any of the other good brands) is not bad for retail.

Anyways we do need to stop bashing them and TNT. They are the good guys even if they are being good simply to make more profits...this is America isn't it?

And I will always also encourage people to support PGI. As Stunt said, the PGI is a hobbiest club with few members compared to other organizations like the NRA. They are not politicians or lobbiests and as Strobes indicated they would love to do some lobbying but the money just isn't there. Needless to say they are a great organization to belong to and again it's something you have to experience to truely believe.

Now I'm off to a party.....have a happy new year guys/gals.

[strobes]

As a whole, I'd be blown away if any pyro club makes any moves to help legalize pyro. I suspect that much of a pyro club's funds comes from membership dues of people that cannot legally shoot. They join the club so that they can shoot legally, free from law enforcement interference. Legalizing fireworks would put many of the clubs in jeopardy. If any real change is made, it's going to be from a manufacturing giant like Phantom, and grassroots communities like Pyro Universe.

Im sorry but you are way off with above.

[stuntborg]

As a whole, I'd be blown away if any pyro club makes any moves to help legalize pyro. I suspect that much of a pyro club's funds comes from membership dues of people that cannot legally shoot. They join the club so that they can shoot legally, free from law enforcement interference. Legalizing fireworks would put many of the clubs in jeopardy. If any real change is made, it's going to be from a manufacturing giant like Phantom, and grassroots communities like Pyro Universe.

Prairie Thunders funds come from membership dues paid by people that can legally shoot fireworks 365 days a year. North Dakota is nice like that. 1.3 permits are easy to get and no insurance requirements. So, essentially you are incorrect. Legalizing fireworks would increase clubs instead of decrease them. Anyone notice that people seem to want to light pyro when their neighbor is lighting pyro? How often do you see just one guy lighting stuff up? Usually someone else responds.