Display Fireworks shot near Railroad Tracks?

[John Ross]

Is there any distance requirement for shooting display fireworks near railroad tracks? The place I'd like to shoot when my license comes through is my property on the Mississippi River (in rural Missouri), where I've been shooting consumer stuff for 40 years.

I shoot over the river, so duds aren't an issue. The tracks are on the other side of a rock wall, about 30 feet from where the mortars are located.

I know when the trains run, and no, I don't shoot then.

Would the AHJ decide this?

JR

[pyroscott]

Is there any distance requirement for shooting display fireworks near railroad tracks? The place I'd like to shoot when my license comes through is my property on the Mississippi River (in rural Missouri), where I've been shooting consumer stuff for 40 years.

I shoot over the river, so duds aren't an issue. The tracks are on the other side of a rock wall, about 30 feet from where the mortars are located.

I know when the trains run, and no, I don't shoot then.

Would the AHJ decide this?

JR

Just like any other show, if the property comes within your fallout zone, you need to get permission for whoever owns the land, put them on the insurance waiver and ensure that there will be no trains there when it is show time. I have to do this all the time with the shows I do at Coors Field, as it backs up to the train tracks too. One year we had to delay the show because of trains being within the fallout zone.

Scott

[Shooting Star Pyro]

And if your fallout area goes over the Mississippi River, you need approval of the DNR and the authority having jurisdiction over the waterway.

You could face serious fines and legal issues if you don't.

[St1dinoh]

And if your fallout area goes over the Mississippi River, you need approval of the DNR and the authority having jurisdiction over the waterway.

You could face serious fines and legal issues if you don't.

don't forget the EPA and the coast gaurd (if it's navigatable)...

[PyroMania]

don't forget the EPA and the coast gaurd (if it's navigatable)...

How about the fish? Has anyone asked the fish?

[JoeRatman]

If I remember correctly, if it is naviagtable, you will need something like 165 days lead time to get the permit.

[frogtoad25]

How about the fish? Has anyone asked the fish?

Yes, they enjoy the shows...

Lights attract fish at night, anyone try fishing during a firework show?

[Arthur Brown]

How frequent are the trains? Can you arrange with the company to shoot in a suitable gap in the traffic? 30feet is far to close to ignore the trains

[nater219]

don't forget the EPA and the coast gaurd (if it's navigatable)...

Back when I was a lifeguard at Cedar Point, part of my duties were to keep people out of the lake during the show on the 4th.

These guys helped, always amazed me how many people wanted their boats in the fallout zone.

[swordfish7]

HALT!!! You're in a firework fallout zone.GO back or you'll be blown to smithereens.So far New York has'nt put that kind of gun boat on lake Erie

[nater219]

I could not find a picture of the exact gun boat. There's a port security unit out of Marblehead. It's a small speed boat with a 50cal mounted on the front. 2 seater, no canopy.

[shorelinepyro]

i shoot 2 shows in connecticut and each of them are literally 20 ft away from the train tracks. one of the shows always get postponed every year for 5 to 15 minutes because we have to wait for the last train to go by and its speed is about 2 mph so it takes forever. i know each state is different but i will ask the guy who gets the permit every year what the steps are for getting a permit like that. The same show is also shot over the major river that is right next to us and you can navigate in it.

[John Ross]

If I remember correctly, if it is navigable, you will need something like 165 days lead time to get the permit.

The river there is about 1000 yards wide. Boats stay out about 300 yards from shore, in the channel, so they don't run aground. There are buoys out there to mark the channel for this reason.

Is the area of the Mississippi River outside the buoy markers, where the water is a couple feet deep, "navigable" because one COULD have a jon boat, raft, or canoe in that area?

Understand that having lived there since I was born (in 1957) I have NEVER seen ANY watercraft within 250 yards of shore. And I have never seen a jon boat, raft, or canoe anywhere on the Mississippi River at any point where the river is straight and runs freely, as it does in front of my property.

I'll call the Coast Guard about this, but I suspect they'll laugh at me...

JR

[Celestial Displays]

I'll bet you a steak dinner they won't be laughing .... Prepare to to get writer's cramp filling out the paperwork!

[doesitinthedark]

John,
Hi!
"I shoot over the river, so duds aren't an issue."
I think they might become an issue......I don't know how they are today, but shells I've dealt with in the past, the lift was incased in a plastic bag. You could soak them in water for several days and it would still be dry! I know this to be a fact as one time I intentionally placed 2 duds in a cooler that was empty except for water, drove several days back from a show, and lift was still dry....stars and burst too. SO.....say a shell drops in the river, it could find its way downstream and possibly someone might find it. Although, with alot of shells having double time fuses...most of them...if they go up...they go off. LOL
Allan

[SFDB]

So let me get this straight, if the lift is in a plastic bag, and we're concerned about someone downstream getting hurt because the powder, in that little bag, can stay dry, then this would indicate the shell was never lit but was thrown into the aforementioned river. What kind of sick demented creature would do such a thing to a perfectly good little shell?

[berger1980]

So let me get this straight, if the lift is in a plastic bag, and we're concerned about someone downstream getting hurt because the powder, in that little bag, can stay dry, then this would indicate the shell was never lit but was thrown into the aforementioned river. What kind of sick demented creature would do such a thing to a perfectly good little shell?

I was going to reply, but you covered it. I would be to assume a dud would have lifted, but the time fuse/spolette didn't take fire. So indeed, the shell would be soaked. Unless you get some of the brand new manufactured shells that are plastic, then that's another story.

[russell]

None of that matters. The Mississippi is a navigable waterway. You need to get a permit from the Coast Guard.

As Joe says, they require a lot of lead time.

The river there is about 1000 yards wide. Boats stay out about 300 yards from shore, in the channel, so they don't run aground. There are buoys out there to mark the channel for this reason.

Is the area of the Mississippi River outside the buoy markers, where the water is a couple feet deep, "navigable" because one COULD have a jon boat, raft, or canoe in that area?

Understand that having lived there since I was born (in 1957) I have NEVER seen ANY watercraft within 250 yards of shore. And I have never seen a jon boat, raft, or canoe anywhere on the Mississippi River at any point where the river is straight and runs freely, as it does in front of my property.

I'll call the Coast Guard about this, but I suspect they'll laugh at me...

JR

[pyroblast63]

About 160 days for new show for coast guard permits.

[weatherman]

Correct me if I am wrong but I do believe that the US Army Corp of Engineers is responsible for all navigable waterways in the US. From my understanding, if your going to place any bouys or devices that restrict navigation you must contact them. Is it possible that both of them have overlapping jurisdiction in this area? Does anybody have a link to the coast guards mandate in this area. I have a link to the CoE mandate within the US code of federal regulations somewhere I just have to find it.

[russell]

Coast Guard has jurisdiction.

If you google it, there's hundreds of references. Here's a couple:

if you desire to do fireworks next to or over a navigable body of water, Federal regulations require that the US Coast Guard issue a permit as well, and this must be submitted at least 135 days in advance of the show.

http://www.captainboom.com/permits.php

http://www.uscg.mil/d8/sectumr/respo...tr%2001-09.pdf

[weatherman]

http://frwebgate1.access.gpo.gov/cgi...ction=retrieve

(e) Aids to navigation. The placing of fixed and floating aids to
navigation in a navigable water of the United States is within the
purview ofSection 10 of the Rivers and Harbors Act of 1899. Furthermore,
these aids are of particular interest to the U.S. Coast Guard because of
its control ofmarking, lighting and standardization of such navigation
aids. A Section 10 nationwide permit has been issued for such aids
provided they are approved by,and installed in accordance with the
requirements of the U.S. Coast Guard (33 CFR 330.5(a)(1)). Electrical
service cables to such aids are not included inthe nationwide permit (an
individual or regional Section 10 permit will be required).

Yea the Coast guard gets it's mandate from the Corp of Engineers when it comes to navigation aids. Should be noted that generally the Coast Guard deals with inland waterways and the CoE deals with tidal waters and any navigable waterways used for interstate or international commerce. Still looking for my CoE fireworks link...