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Thread: Cracker Bombs (legal quarters)

  1. #1
    Member Array matski35's Avatar
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    Default Cracker Bombs (legal quarters)

    What's the deal with these things? Are they legal or not? I'd like to take a hundred of these things use some stcky match to make a nice long strip.

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    Member Array countryboy7978's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cracker Bombs (legal quarters)

    I'm gonna jump in here before you get ripped to pieces. First off the Cracker Bombs are legal in the realm of 1.3G, but they are not consumer firecrackers by any means. Yes, I know they are sold as such sometimes, but trust me they are not. I'm not going to say what the load is, but it's healthy to say the least.

    Secondly, please DO NOT attempt to sticky match or fuse them together by any means, especially around other people or structures. The reason why is that since they are fused with visco (or time fuse in the case of european types), they will not all go off at the exact same time. The pressure wave will likely throw the lit but not yet exploded firecrackers a great distance. I'm pretty sure you don't want one falling in your lap or that of someone else.

    I'm not gonna tell you anything else other than please be smart with stuff like this, and at better yet leave it alone.

  3. #3
    Daskal
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    Default Re: Cracker Bombs (legal quarters)

    The above poster made some excellent points. Yes, "Cracker Bombs" are legal in the sense that they are classified as 1.3G Display Fireworks, (UN0335). If you have the proper permits and venue, they can be used safely as long as you observe prudent precautions, such as not holding them in your hand and throwing them after igniting the fuse. His point about the sticky match is well taken because of the visco leaders that thay have, which would create a very dangerous and unpredictable situation. If you want a rapid fire effect like that, 2.5" titanium salute finale strings would work better in a show or just for fun. (Although they would be airbursts rather than on the ground). Don't light finale strings or aerial shells without loading them into an appropriate mortar tube. Again, these are NOT Consumer Fireworks by any stretch of the imagination, so make sure you know what you are doing (preferably with training), and follow all applicable laws. I obtained a Type 34 (User of Low Explosves) permit back in 2000 when I was into rocketry as well as fireworks, and it was not a big deal, as long as you make sure you are compliant with all storage laws. Those are the killer. Getting my NYS CDL with Hazardous materials endorsement was more difficult, and more expensive. (Over $150 for fingerprints )

    In the pyro club that I belong to, many individual permit holders will purchase 1.3G materials such as these Cracker Bombs, pre-loaded salute tubes, fogetti racks, and Thunder King cakes for open shooting during the day along with different class C items. If you are interested in these items, obtain your permit and join a local club. I'm more of a show-oriented person, so i like to pre-order larger shells (Japanese and American ones in particular) and include them in the nightly club display, so i'm usually busy helping with the show during the daytime. Either way you look at it, pyro clubs have a little bit of everything to suit most tastes. Hit me back with an e-mail if you need any more information. And yeah, I have a great sense of humor, so forgive me for playing with you guys in my last post. Its just annoying me that I have to wait until May to shoot again. I recently graduated from law school at Florida State and am anxious to get back.

    On one point I am not sure of however. I don't understand how the ATFE differentiates between color shells and salutes. How are large salute shells and ground salute items still classified as display fireworks and not high explosives? When does a "ground salute" or "salute shell" become a "destructive device" as defined in the ATFE rules? Don't get me wrong, I think things are fine the way they are, but couldn't the government classify salute shells as high explosives in the future? Or would their use as a staple in so many professional shows be a public pressure/policy reason not to reclassify them? Does anyone know the current status of any proposals out there? E-mail me or respond if you want.

  4. #4
    Member Array Don F's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cracker Bombs (legal quarters)

    Quote Originally Posted by Daskal
    On one point I am not sure of however. I don't understand how the ATFE differentiates between color shells and salutes. How are large salute shells and ground salute items still classified as display fireworks and not high explosives? When does a "ground salute" or "salute shell" become a "destructive device" as defined in the ATFE rules? Don't get me wrong, I think things are fine the way they are, but couldn't the government classify salute shells as high explosives in the future? Or would their use as a staple in so many professional shows be a public pressure/policy reason not to reclassify them? Does anyone know the current status of any proposals out there? E-mail me or respond if you want.
    Grrrrrrr where is that buttom !!!

    First off salutes do not detonate and there fore are not a high explosive.
    there is no supersonic shockwave from a salute (HEs produce supersonic waves while fireworks ?low explosives create subsonic waves) I would think even a novice 1.3g shooter would know such things, most hobbiests have a better understanding I guess
    sorry please dont be giving them any ideas .

    as for cracker bombs are you talking large salute or 1.4G cracker bombs which are basicly a head bomb a number of 50milligram consumer crackers held tightly together with paper with all fuses exposed to the visco causing them to go off almost all at once .

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    Member Array Chiprivrat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cracker Bombs (legal quarters)

    Quote Originally Posted by Daskal
    On one point I am not sure of however. I don't understand how the ATFE differentiates between color shells and salutes. How are large salute shells and ground salute items still classified as display fireworks and not high explosives? When does a "ground salute" or "salute shell" become a "destructive device" as defined in the ATFE rules? Don't get me wrong, I think things are fine the way they are, but couldn't the government classify salute shells as high explosives in the future? Or would their use as a staple in so many professional shows be a public pressure/policy reason not to reclassify them? Does anyone know the current status of any proposals out there? E-mail me or respond if you want.
    They are classified as high explosives! (but Don is also correct above)

    Salutes not packed with other fireworks are considered bulk salutes and are high explosives for storage purposes (meaning a type 1 or 2 mag is needed). Remember DOT classification and BATFE classification are two different animals.

    As I understand it the DOT is reclassifying some shells (10"+ and some salutes) as 1.1g. Once they do that you can kiss them goodbye, gone, no longer in existence at least from the import and transportation perspective. No one will haul them.

    See this other thread for more info.

    http://www.pyrouniverse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=794

    Chiprivrat
    Last edited by Chiprivrat; March 3rd, 2006 at 01:25 PM.

  6. #6
    Daskal
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    Default Re: Cracker Bombs (legal quarters)

    Dan, the "cracker bombs" we were talking about are the ones from the Kellner's Fireworks 1.3G catalog. They are medium-sized individual ground salutes with visco leaders.

    I didn't know about the salute shell/color shell rule. So if you buy just salutes you need a high explosives permit, but if you buy both salute shells and color shells than all you need is just a Type 54?

    Sometimes this stuff makes your head spin.

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    Moderator Array yeagerb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cracker Bombs (legal quarters)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiprivrat
    They are classified as high explosives! (but Don is also correct above)

    Salutes not packed with other fireworks are considered bulk salutes and are high explosives for storage purposes (meaning a type 1 or 2 mag is needed). Remember DOT classification and BATFE classification are two different animals.

    As I understand it the DOT is reclassifying some shells (10"+ and some salutes) as 1.1g. Once they do that you can kiss them goodbye, gone, no longer in existence at least from the import and transportation perspective. No one will haul them.

    See this other thread for more info.

    http://www.pyrouniverse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=794

    Chiprivrat
    Don, Chiprivrat -

    Is it safe to say that a single SALUTE is not a high explosive by HE standards, but BATFE considers bulk salutes as HE?

    And I agree - once DOT reclassifies 10+ bigger shells as 1.1 - they are all but gone!
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  8. #8
    Member Array Don F's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cracker Bombs (legal quarters)

    Isnt the DOT just a bit hypocritical
    lets face is 12 and 16" shells are big but dont really pose any more danger than a case of other shell. yet they would redesignate them asd 1.1G
    making transport illgal for the most part. Now 1000# bunker busters and various missiles are carried on our highways everyday with little of no placarding.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Cracker Bombs (legal quarters)

    Thank you Don!! You make an excellent point. I have seen trucks on the highway transporting munitions, both 1.2 and 1.1. I would think that these pose a far greater hazard than a couple cases of 10, 12 or 16" shells. I'm sure the military stuff is exempt from all the extra hassles and regs. Someone, somewhere is pressuring the DOT to do this, who? I don't know- maybe NFPA or some other fireworks hostile group... Someone, somewhere also stands to gain financially from this...

  10. #10
    Member Array Chiprivrat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cracker Bombs (legal quarters)

    Quote Originally Posted by yeagerb
    Don, Chiprivrat -

    Is it safe to say that a single SALUTE is not a high explosive by HE standards, but BATFE considers bulk salutes as HE?

    And I agree - once DOT reclassifies 10+ bigger shells as 1.1 - they are all but gone!
    They still classify them as "Display Fireworks" low explosive unless you store them in bulk, meaning more than one salute in its own carton. If you donít break up the case and mix them with 50% of color shells you have to store them as high explosives in a type1 or type2 magazine. That magazine would conform to the distance table for H.E.

    Its kind of a confusing rule but I think what they are trying to prevent is someone storing 10, 20, 50, or 100 cases of salutes (basically bulk flash powder) in a small magazine that would be say 200' from a dwelling because it was built for display fireworks and meets the code and distances from the display fireworks orange book table. 10, 50 or 100 cases of salutes detonating in that scenario would probably cause a major problem for surrounding dwellings.

    To answer Daskal's question: You can buy all the salutes you want with a type 54 but if you donít have a Type 1 or 2 magazine OR a type 4 AND have color shells to mix them with you would be considered in violation of the storage rule and subject to revocation of license as well as other bad stuff associated with men in dark suits and sunglasses.

    I also agree with you Don on the DOT 1.1 deal. I believe the whole thing has something to do with international standards and the DOT changing their rules to meet those standards. I think Marty can expand on this a bit, I know we have had the conversation here about it but I could not find the thread.

    When it comes to the military they can just haul anything, anytime, anyplace since they donít have to follow the rules. Remember how our government works they get to make the rules but donít have to follow the rules they make

    Chiprivrat

  11. #11
    Moderator Array yeagerb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cracker Bombs (legal quarters)

    Chiprivrat,

    The training I received at the BED here in IL, the instructor said that salutes tend to 'mass detonate' when stored in bulk as well. But your 100% correct on everything you stated. Especially this one: "Remember how our government works they get to make the rules but donít have to follow the rules they make"
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