Recent Information re: the NY State S and S Bill

[Richard]

I have some preliminary information to pass along. I should have more details tomorrow. Apparently at least one of the main reasons for no movement in the Assembly Codes Committee is not what I would have thought. From all the legislative grumbling, I felt that post 9/11 tension was the cause but it seems that the Assembly Codes Committee doesn't care for the harsh penalties in this bill. That is bittersweet because, I believe, no one on this thread liked them. I don't know whether the bill can be amended by the end of June when the legislative session ends, but if it can't, then the bill dies in the Assembly Codes Committee. I've been told that the Senate and Assembly are in joint conference about the differences, but to re-work the bill by June 25 might be too much to ask. The last time it was amended it took over 2 months. The reason for the inclusion of harsh penalties in the first place seemed to be related to 9/11 as well as major abuses of the ban such as tractor- trailer loads of fireworks being brought into the state and fireworks sales to minors, but many legislators felt that the bill's penalties go too far. I suppose that it's a good or bad thing, depending on the way you look at it. I supported the original bill because we'd finally have something legal since we've had a ban for so long. I felt that the permit idea would cover the bases for the non ground stuff. We could then work on modification of eveything after it became law. If the bill has to be re-done from scratch, it without a doubt would be a better law, but we wouldn't have legal fireworks until almost 2008.

[phil]

Lol Phil come on man, is Nassau COUNTY or Suffolk County a city?

Pyroforlife1, I know its not part of the city but I am asking will suffolk or nassau be allowed to use safe and sane.

[Richard]

Phil, the short answer is yes. I believe, however, that should it pass, then any city would still have the option of having them legal or illegal within their limits.

[phil]

That is good news to me Richard , thank you..

[Richard]

The Assembly Codes Committee definitely will not go along with the stiff penalties in the current bill. I know that a number of you did'nt like the penalties so it's victory of a sort. The assembly codes committee is now studying it for other unfavorable items. It seems that all of the trouble lies in the bill's language. I did get a positive feeling for some type of s&s legalization, however, if the bugs could get worked out. After the committee's recommendations, if the bill's sponsor in the assembly doesn't agree with them, or if there are too many recommendations to sort out by the end of the session in June, it's dead for this year. Should the sponsor agree with the recommendations, then the senate would also have to agree to the changes or they would have to have some type of compromise. Even after the compromise, the governor would have to sign it. Unlike the previous bill, the governor's office isn't directly involved in these negotiations, so it's anyone's guess if he would sign it. Should his office become involved in the negotiations, there would probably not be enough time to pass it this session. It would be really helpful if the assembly bill's sponsor would push for something to happen. All of this probably means that the permit idea is dead for this session. It does look like something positive would happen for some type of legalization in the next session but I, for one, am getting tired of waiting.

[Pyroman6000]

Richard, this bill you're talikng about is different from Sen Volker's right? That deals mainly with disply stuff, and is looking to get things clarified to allow for private entities to get permits for shows among other things. I guess, currently the DOL is pushing the literal interpretation of the regs in that only govt agencies can get permits for displays. This would devastate our industry, as private shows are our bread and butter! There are only so many firemens' carnivals and city/ village/town festivals.... Perhaps I didn't represent it quite right as I have not read the bill, but that is my understanding from the last assn meeting where we discussed it at legnth.

[fireworkswholesale]

This bill will help our safe and sane business maybe not too much. Most NYers come in and by vanloads of nonsafe and sane so i dont see much of a change for buyers. NY has to start some where so it is still good to see that they are trying.

[NYSHOOTER]

Wholesale if you don't mind can you delete or edit your post. I think it would be the professional thing to do thanks.

[Richard]

Pyroman6000, the bill that I'm speaking about is Senator Volker's Bill. The same bill was introduced by Assemblyman Tokasz in the assembly.

[Richard]

Pyroman6000. I re-read your post and Senator Volker's Bill deals with s&s.

[Richard]

The s&s bill's passage doesn't look good in its present form. As well as not liking the harsh penalties, the Assembly Codes Committee dislikes the fact that it's too complicated. I intend to suggest that if legislators want to mimic the federal government by basically considering ground based fireworks as novelties, then mimic the federal government by allowing all consumer fireworks. Should the bill have to re-done from scratch, then consider a law such as the new Indiana one. Perhaps it could be more palatable if time limits were placed on it. A distinct second best could be similar to New Hampshire's Fireworks Law which basically allows all fireworks but firecrackers, rockets, and missiles which the CPSC Statistics claim cause the most injuries. Something like that might stand a better chance of passage. I know that these items are beloved by many, but if we could just open the door, then we could work on the rest of the enchilada later. These are just suggestions so please don't shoot the messenger.

[Pyrofreedom]

You've got my thumbs up, Richard. Hopefully Indiana's law will prove to be both effective and satisfying to the citizens and officials of the state, then we can strike half of NY's excuses off their little "list". Seriously, how many examples do our legislators need before they wake the ef' up and realize that fireworks bans don't work .

[Pyroman6000]

You've got my thumbs up, Richard. Hopefully Indiana's law will prove to be both effective and satisfying to the citizens and officials of the state, then we can strike half of NY's excuses off their little "list". Seriously, how many examples do our legislators need before they wake the ef' up and realize that fireworks bans don't work .

Probably until they quit getting all the political pressure from down state! I don't see what their beef is anyway- NYC already has their own stricter laws on the books and a statewide loosening of the current ban would not supercede them. Those that want them can already get them from PA and MD, where NY has NO control over what is sold...

Also until the fireworks haters are not in the majority in the media, and amongst law enforcement and the fire service. The yellow journalists will continue their "crusade" of lies, exaggerations, half truths, and creative editing as long as they think they can sway public opinion, and as long as we are stupid enough to believe them.

If the truth really mattered to those in power, this ban wouldn't have lasted as long as it did! As it is, it stays because of politics, and grass roots pressure from all the blind cows that swallow the media and others' hype. Because the ban has been with us for so long, ignorance has been widespread for generations. Most folks know nothing but what the media and emergency services tell them, and neither is a good source of info on fireworks! I'd be leery of a total opening of the doors until some kind of REAL public info and/or training has been implimented. Too many folks with no clue would fulfill all the doom sayer's prophesies.

[Richard]

Pyroman 6000, you're tough. All that you said is true, however. There are so many misconceptions in the legislature. Blowing up a watermelon with an M- 80 and using that as justification to ban all fireworks is just stupidity. I received a letter from a top ranking legislator a few days ago and he seemed a bit surprised about the the real truth as a result of the statistics that I sent. I hop that those statistics are put to good use.

[Richard]

I expect to have some more information about the assembly's reasons for opposing the s&s bill by Saturday. It's waiting in its present form in the Senate Codes Committee. As is, it could be passed by the senate in a week. Next week I'm going to try to see if the assembly sponsor is willing to alter the bill or just let it die.

[phil]

I expect to have some more information about the assembly's reasons for opposing the s&s bill by Saturday. It's waiting in its present form in the Senate Codes Committee. As is, it could be passed by the senate in a week. Next week I'm going to try to see if the assembly sponsor is willing to alter the bill or just let it die.

Richard thank yoo so much for keeping us updated, I appreciate it

[Richard]

As I've said previously, the Assembly Codes Committee didn't like the penalties in the s&s bill. It seems that the bill follows current law as far as penalties are concerned but the Assembly Codes Committee feels that current law should be changed. Should this happen, it would constitute a major overhaul and probably couldn't be accomplished this year. The assembly's sponsor could also decide not to go along with the recommendations. The bill would then die. The third option would be for the bill's assembly sponsor and the Assembly Codes Committee to reach some sort of compromise. Should that happen, the senate and governor would then have to agree.

[King Of Queens]

I totally agree waiting is hard but remember the saying "good things come to those who wait"

Remember the saying " Be careful what you wish for "

[phil]

Then in that case , I wish consumer fireworks were legal everywhere

[Richard]

The Assembly Codes Committee is sending it's recommendations on the s&s bill to the assembly bill's sponsor, probably tomorrow. It will depend on the priority that the sponsor gives it as to whether or not there will be meaningful movement and when. I'll keep you posted when I hear something again.

[scott_laf]

Feel free to become a Hoosier and join Indiana for some great celebrations. I know what we went thru has been a long time in progress and many many years of battles. Good luck to your state and the many others

[Bl@ckMarket]

Remember the saying " Be careful what you wish for "

I feel the same way. I was completely supportive of the bill last year that is until I read the whole thing through. The felony part I didn't like. Also the complicated language as to what would be permitted. Then the biggest issue is that alot of pyros are in the NYC area. Probably best to leave things the way they are without the harsher penalties and without Rudy around things seemed to be getting slightly better. I have never experienced any pyro activities in NY, on NYE until this past one in my 30 years here. It was great. Long Island and Upstate who would benefit from this bill don't seem to be hassled much by the law for lighting on the 4th. Unless their neighbors give a complaint.

Thanks for the updates Richard.

[Richard]

A bit of good news, perhaps. The assembly's sponsor is at least looking at the codes committee recommendations without giving them a blatant "no". The current s&s bill follows current penalties on the books with three exceptions, two being particulaly distasteful. Creating a misdemeanor for selling fireworks or dangerous fireworks to anyone, especially a minor, is a response from several legislators that complained about the increase in fireworks in the state ( eg. tractor trailer loads). The two that I really resent are making it a crime instead of a violation for possession of dangerous fireworks (pretty much all that isn't s&s) without a permit and the ridiculous assumption that the possession of more than $50 worth of fireworks is a presumption that they are for sale. As you know, my previous permit suggestion for non-ground based fireworks was an attempt to soften the blow of these penalties. Currently, obtaining a permit means that you need to be certified for 1.3G. All this being said, however, our friends in NYC would still suffer with the bill as it is. It will be a while before we see anything like Indiana's law since this bill provides for a five year period of time to study it's effects, but we'll see what out legislators come up with. I'll keep reporting information as it becomes available.

[Richard]

Last week and this have been devoted to budget talks so there hasn't been much time to concentrate on any bills. Next week I'm going to try to find out some more about the s&s bill. It certainly does appear that it's currently not dead and that there will be discussion. Anything goes, however. If you believe in prayer, now is a good time. I'll let you know more when I get something.

[Richard]

The office of the assembly's sponsor is considering all options regarding fireworks legislation (s&s with and without a permit process for non-ground items, the harsh penalties in the original bill, and even a fireworks surcharge for firefighters). Blanket legalization of all consumer fireworks at this time is not being considered ( I knew that it was too premature). I'm supposed to find out more later this week and I'll pass it on. Perhaps an s&s bill with a reasonable permit process for the other items will take shape.

[Richard]

I received a call from the office of the assembly bill's sponsor requesting further specific information related to the s&s bill. I reiterated my opposition to the harsh penalties. I was assured that everything is being studied but that in the end, the bill may go through as is. Apparently the codes committee recommendations are just that, recommendations. I'll let you know when I have any further news.

[NY Pyro]

anyone know of any good stores near Buffalo,NY besides Sky King or Phantom? Phantom and Sky Kings prices are too expensive compared to places I have seen online. Are there any cheap stores in Erie ,PA or anything within a two hour drive of Buffalo,NY?

[Richard]

I spoke with the assembly sponsor's office today and they now think that they may go along with the codes committee recomendations. Go figure. The bill's movement with or without the permit idea will now be determined on the basis of which legislation will be afforded priority status. Next week until the end of the legislative session will be busy since the governor vetoed parts of the budget. Your guess is as good as mine if the bill will be given some type of priority status. I can't get a good reading on that. I'll see what I can find out in a week or two.

[nelfty]

NYPYRO
There are a few places to go about a 2-3 hour drive from Buffalo. In Erie there is Big Woodies which is retail. There is also Niles fireworks south of Jamestown in Landers Pa. He is primarily retail. Then there is Kellners which is more wholesale and is even better if you are a pyro group member.

[thomask280]

What is the status of the N.Y. regulation called the "O & P" i.e. Own and Possess? It is from the Dept. of Labor and was the downfall of the "Summer Fireworks Festivals" that were held every two years in Weedsport N.Y. If it is still in place will it affect any new regulations?