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Thread: see whats happens when you "play" with fireworks.

  1. #31

    Default Re: see whats happens when you "play" with fireworks.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuntborg View Post
    No I'm a realist. I understand that the vocal minority rule this nation. The video does not provide needed information to be a learning tool. Instead it allows the user to draw their own conclusion. Most will draw the wrong conclusion. Bottom line fireworks can be dangerous when used improperly. People need to understand that. But they also need to understand what is dangerous and what is not. If this video was done properly then it could be useful. Instead it is just like the CPSC videos showing a dummy keep her manquein head above a fountain as they say "this could be your kid" because kids are way to stupid to get out of the fountain...
    You seem more cynical than realistic to me. If the vocal minority had as much power as a lot of people would like to believe, fireworks would be banned every time a video like this surfaced.

    The REALITY is, we have states working on or considering loosening up laws.

    Meanwhile, the statistics the lobbyists, CPSC and other organizations use grow thinner and thinner.

    The access everyone has to information and facts nowadays is growing more and more popular. These crybabies are losing their ground.

  2. #32
    PyInTheSky.com Array WildWilli's Avatar
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    Default Re: see whats happens when you "play" with fireworks.

    I'm guessing he had two shells in the "gun" and the top shell had a major malfunction on lift and the break also went in the tube blowing the shell on the bottom out the back door with considerable more oommpf than even an Excal leaving a consumer mortar. If he was holding on to a mortar tube by the base and shooting the balls out, as I've seen the kids do, then straight back comes the plug and luckilly this time the fuse went out or never lit on the round left in the guy's chest cavity.

    Directions were not being followed, I guarantee.
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  3. #33

    Default Re: see whats happens when you "play" with fireworks.

    Quote Originally Posted by billebouy View Post
    Tell ya what.

    Put on a catcher's chest protector, and shoot an Excal into your chest from point-blank range.

    I'd post it on YouTube for ya.
    I think I'll pass on that I did look for the equation to calculate the velocity assuming a 1.5 or 2 second lift to apex but couldn't find it.
    I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.

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  4. #34
    Moderator Array lava's Avatar
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    Default Re: see whats happens when you "play" with fireworks.

    Quote Originally Posted by lostfido View Post
    .....Pyro U can't police idiots...
    Even the police can't police idiots.

  5. #35

    Default Re: see whats happens when you "play" with fireworks.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnpyro View Post
    You seem more cynical than realistic to me. If the vocal minority had as much power as a lot of people would like to believe, fireworks would be banned every time a video like this surfaced.

    The REALITY is, we have states working on or considering loosening up laws.

    Meanwhile, the statistics the lobbyists, CPSC and other organizations use grow thinner and thinner.

    The access everyone has to information and facts nowadays is growing more and more popular. These crybabies are losing their ground.
    These so called cry babies are not loosing ground. Long running 1.3 shows this year got shut down to protect the birds. In NYC they are no longer allowed to sell sodas over a certain size. Peanut butter is beiing banned in schools across the country. Michigan is currently under attack from the vocal minority. 61% of registered voters voted in the last election. No statistics on what percentage of those eligible to vote registered to vote. Our president was decided by the vocal minority.

    I'm not saying we shouldn't educate people. We should. But we should be wise in how we do it. The media will twist our words in order to make the story more sensational. The anti pyro people will say "look what could happen" and leave out the drunk part or they will make it sound like only drunk people shoot fireworks.
    I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.

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  6. #36
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    Default Re: see whats happens when you "play" with fireworks.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuntborg View Post
    I think I'll pass on that I did look for the equation to calculate the velocity assuming a 1.5 or 2 second lift to apex but couldn't find it.
    Average initial velocity (we can debate wording of initial velocity vs. velocity vs. speed all day long, but for this sample let's use initial velocity) of 2012 MLB pitchers fastball is 88-97 mph. The average velocity of a 2" shell is 80 mph, 3" shell is 98 mph, 4" shell is 113 mph, 5" shell is 126 mph and a 6" shell is 138 mph.

    Another thing to consider here is kinetic energy that comes from the shell (force x distance). Shape, weight and distance would matter....I'm talking about the shell, no sick jokes here Willi, Lawnchair or Fido.
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  7. #37

    Default Re: see whats happens when you "play" with fireworks.

    Quote Originally Posted by bloomboom View Post
    Average initial velocity (we can debate wording of initial velocity vs. velocity vs. speed all day long, but for this sample let's use initial velocity) of 2012 MLB pitchers fastball is 88-97 mph. The average velocity of a 2" shell is 80 mph, 3" shell is 98 mph, 4" shell is 113 mph, 5" shell is 126 mph and a 6" shell is 138 mph.

    Another thing to consider here is kinetic energy that comes from the shell (force x distance). Shape, weight and distance would matter....I'm talking about the shell, no sick jokes here Willi, Lawnchair or Fido.
    The momentum of the shell would matter...speed x mass.
    Isn't force x distance a measure of work and not kinetic energy?
    I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.

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  8. #38
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    Default Re: see whats happens when you "play" with fireworks.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuntborg View Post
    The momentum of the shell would matter...speed x mass.
    Isn't force x distance a measure of work and not kinetic energy?
    Yes it would matter. Again, for my simple sample, I used kinetic and we could debate work or kinetic using Newston's law (joule), physical dimensions, circular motion, etc. I used kinetic because work is usually calculated as a constant.
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  9. #39
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    Default Re: see whats happens when you "play" with fireworks.

    Unlike Echo, I didn't talk to this guy privately, but looking at his scars, I'm pretty confident it wasn't 1.4 he was playing with. From the look of his wound, he had a thoracoabdominal injury, it violated both his abdomen and his chest. Probably is missing part of his right lung, and probably some ribs and some diaphragm as well as a liver injury. My guess is when this guy ended up in the hospital they opened his chest and his belly because of his injuries, needed complex reconstruction including skin grafts. Just way too much force to be 1.4, unless there was some schrapnel that hit him, even so, it isn't any ordinary 1.4.

    The guy is lucky to be alive.

    Stunt, momentum is a huge factor in this, mass x velocity. I was privy to see a firework injury at work once, some guy didn't realize quick match is quick, and light it while having the top of his head over a 4 in mortar with a salute in it. The top of his head was clear blown off, he ended up in my hospital as an organ donor. Fact of the matter is that any size shell from 1.75 up acts like a cannon coming out of the tube.
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  10. #40

    Default Re: see whats happens when you "play" with fireworks.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuntborg View Post
    These so called cry babies are not loosing ground. Long running 1.3 shows this year got shut down to protect the birds. In NYC they are no longer allowed to sell sodas over a certain size. Peanut butter is beiing banned in schools across the country. Michigan is currently under attack from the vocal minority. 61% of registered voters voted in the last election. No statistics on what percentage of those eligible to vote registered to vote. Our president was decided by the vocal minority.

    I'm not saying we shouldn't educate people. We should. But we should be wise in how we do it. The media will twist our words in order to make the story more sensational. The anti pyro people will say "look what could happen" and leave out the drunk part or they will make it sound like only drunk people shoot fireworks.
    To me though, your counterpoint seems just as sensationalistic as the media reporting.

    What are the stats on where the 1.3 shows got shut down? How many locals were opposed to the idea and how many for? How many didn't really care either way?

    That's the great thing about people. Like minded individuals congregate in the same places, just like we all congregate here. You have California where everything causes cancer. New York where they fight obesity by limiting soft drink sizes.

    The Michigan thing, they opened flood gates, and from the looks of it, are just figuring out way to reach a compromise. That would be fine by me. If I had to deal with idiots blasting excals all night when I had to wake up at 4 in the morning for work, I'd be kinda pissed.

    It's all small fish and isolated problems being blown out of proportion from all sides.

    We're worried about how we educate people, yet there's a debate going on as to whether or not this was 1.3 or 1.4. Almost suggesting that 1.4 is safe to screw around and "play" with. (I know no one is suggesting this, but hopefully the point is clear.)

    This clown in the video states clearly and coherently "this is what happens when you PLAY with fireworks". What more needs to be known, and what is gained from knowing?
    Last edited by johnpyro; October 15th, 2012 at 05:10 AM.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: see whats happens when you "play" with fireworks.

    he commented back on the video......with that said idk wisconsin laws but are 2" shells legal there? on a consumer level?



    Yes I was using a 2" mortar round legally purchased in Wisconsin, I may have a a few adult beverages that day which made me think itd be ok to hold launchimg tube while i shot the firework out......bad idea, I accidently loaded mortar round in backwards making mortar explode in tube and blowing into my chest...my thumb was lost because i was holding the bottom of tube

  12. #42
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    Default Re: see whats happens when you "play" with fireworks.

    Well its safe to assume that its a 1.75 shell he bought at a retail stand. Normal people, not guys like us ( hobbyists and pros) call those shells 2 inch.
    Its amazing the damage the shell did, but i can see a premium 1.4G 1.75 shell doing the damage.
    That video does have educational value and would be good to show at a PGI cert class for example. All to many guys discount small shells.
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  13. #43
    Member Array moparman's Avatar
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    Default Re: see whats happens when you "play" with fireworks.

    Well if he is trying to sue he just blew his case (probly already knows he dosn't have one). He did exactly what the warning label said not to.
    Last edited by moparman; October 15th, 2012 at 09:47 AM. Reason: strobes beat me to it

  14. #44

    Default Re: see whats happens when you "play" with fireworks.

    He just posted what really happened. He was drinking and thought it was a good idea to hold the tube in his hands while lighting it. He loaded the shell upside down. He was holding it with his right hand and the thumb was underneath the tube when it expoded in the tube. The tube was right next to his chest so thats why the damage to his torso was so nasty. At least the truth comes out, but he should have said that on the video.

  15. #45
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    Default Re: see whats happens when you "play" with fireworks.

    Quote Originally Posted by extremeaudiopro View Post
    he commented back on the video......with that said idk wisconsin laws but are 2" shells legal there? on a consumer level?



    Yes I was using a 2" mortar round legally purchased in Wisconsin, I may have a a few adult beverages that day which made me think itd be ok to hold launchimg tube while i shot the firework out......bad idea, I accidently loaded mortar round in backwards making mortar explode in tube and blowing into my chest...my thumb was lost because i was holding the bottom of tube
    That makes a lot more sense. The news articles I read say that the first round functioned properly, shooting out of the tube in the correct direction. That would suggest that the lift charge of the top shell was the only contributing factor. I'd believe that it if he was on the downrange end of a tube with the shell loaded correctly. By contrast (in my opinion) a shell blowing in the tube could easily cause a rear blowout with enough force to cause that much damage. I've seen plugs blown out of fiberglass tubes by festival balls that blew in the tube...

  16. #46
    Member Array mgh1980's Avatar
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    Default Re: see whats happens when you "play" with fireworks.

    Quote Originally Posted by extremeaudiopro View Post
    he commented back on the video......with that said idk wisconsin laws but are 2" shells legal there? on a consumer level?



    Yes I was using a 2" mortar round legally purchased in Wisconsin, I may have a a few adult beverages that day which made me think itd be ok to hold launchimg tube while i shot the firework out......bad idea, I accidently loaded mortar round in backwards making mortar explode in tube and blowing into my chest...my thumb was lost because i was holding the bottom of tube
    Now, that makes more sense. Chunk of mortar can cause alot of damage if held that close.
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  17. #47
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    Default Re: see whats happens when you "play" with fireworks.

    My bad...I didn't see this thread. I commented on the original article. Didn't want to mention the brand of shell on here but yes its a 1.4 item.
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