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Thread: Idiots

  1. #1
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    Default Idiots

    I love fireworks as much as anyone else here. The bigger the better. But there is a time and a place. Well right now is the time, but some places are not as well suited as others.

    Most of the people where I live are pretty cool and we have large yards. Mine is about ten acres. Next to us is a subdivision that borders my propery. These are about acre lots.
    Well a new guy moved in and he has been setting off the ocassional salute for about the past two weeks. Today as I was driving buy I noticed a bunch of cars and someone unloading some home made mortars. I figured he must be having a party. I couldn't help but stop and talk a bit. Tried telling them that those 4 and 5 inch steel pipes weren't that safe, especially since their neighbors are only about 100 feet away. I was looked at like I was from Mars.

    Right now there is volley after volley of salutes going off. It would really ruin their party if one went off in the gun.

    How do you deal with morons like that?
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    Default Re: Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike B View Post
    I love fireworks as much as anyone else here. The bigger the better. But there is a time and a place. Well right now is the time, but some places are not as well suited as others.

    Most of the people where I live are pretty cool and we have large yards. Mine is about ten acres. Next to us is a subdivision that borders my propery. These are about acre lots.
    Well a new guy moved in and he has been setting off the ocassional salute for about the past two weeks. Today as I was driving buy I noticed a bunch of cars and someone unloading some home made mortars. I figured he must be having a party. I couldn't help but stop and talk a bit. Tried telling them that those 4 and 5 inch steel pipes weren't that safe, especially since their neighbors are only about 100 feet away. I was looked at like I was from Mars.

    Right now there is volley after volley of salutes going off. It would really ruin their party if one went off in the gun.

    How do you deal with morons like that?
    As happy as I would be if someone was firing off salutes here, I wouldn't want them doing it unsafely either.

    I would offer to sell them some real guns.
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    Default Re: Idiots

    Tough call Mike. I had a similar situation with some local firemen. I told them a few times they were way too close to the crowd, and they looked at me like I was nuts saying "they are just fireworks" I ended up just letting them be and will have nothing to do with their shows at all. I tried to offer them help to be safe and it was unwanted. I would hate to see someone get hurt, but I tried and you can't change everything.
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    Default Re: Idiots

    I guess I'm not there to see the thickness or rack that they are in. But, I'd feel a lot safer with steel at those distances than HDPE or fiberglass.
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    Default Re: Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by fidstang View Post
    I guess I'm not there to see the thickness or rack that they are in. But, I'd feel a lot safer with steel at those distances than HDPE or fiberglass.
    A steel mortar will send potentiall lethal shrapnel WELL past those distances. Steel has one place as mortars, and only at long distances and with some form of blast protection in place.
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    Default Re: Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by nater219 View Post
    A steel mortar will send potentiall lethal shrapnel WELL past those distances. Steel has one place as mortars, and only at long distances and with some form of blast protection in place.
    Interesting, why is it you need steel mortars when shooting large peanut cans/shells? I'd still feel safer with a .250" thick mortar than HDPE or fiberglass, I'd wager that even a good .128" wall steel tube would contain the blast of a 1 and 3/4" salute.

    Then again, I guess it would depend on the grade of steel. I don't have my chart on me anymore, but when I used to work at a metal fabrication shop as a quality tech. I used to have a sheet that told me the amount of PSI a steel tube of 5140, 4140 etc... would hold before bursting. Most of the steel tube split at the seam and released pressure, they did not shatter.
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    Default Re: Idiots

    What is really crazy is that I see more and more 1.3 product in the hands of inexeperienced people, being shot where it has no place. Just standing on my porch it looks like Navey Pier. Display shells are cool, but not when one can wind up on your neighbors patio. There will always be someone trying to make a buck, cook their books, and bootleg 1.3. There is plenty of kick ass 1.4 out there and an unlicensed individual has no right to posess anything else. These are the idiots that are an accident waiting to happen. And when one does it provides more ammunition to the anti-fireworks groups.

    Nate is spot on about steel mortars too. It probably would not of upset me so much if I saw a rack from R+T or some fiberglass guns. These fools had tubes welded onto pieces of plate.
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    Default Re: Idiots

    I agree Mike. The more I use 1.3; especially after I have seen more commercial shells fail, it needs to stay out of the hands of inexperienced people. 1.4 is so much more forgiving, and still powerful enough to ruin your day. The bootlegged 1.3 could ruin our hobby real quick.
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    Default Re: Idiots

    Mike, My personal opinion is that once you walked into the situation and were able to evaluate the risk, I think you have more of an obligation to the safety of the neighbors than to this moron. If this guy doesn't stop, I suppose I would have no choice but to knock on their doors of the neighbors and alert them of the danger they are in because of their neighbor's idiocy. If you don't do it today, do it another day. Just let the neighbors know that this guy is being irresponsible with product that can place their family and property at danger. You might also invite the neighbor over after this evening ends and show him your shop and explain your passion for fireworks, but also your passion for firework safety and try to convince him that shooting those salutes at such close distances places him at HUGE risk of hurting himself and neighbors, at a cost that will do more than just bankrupt him.

    Not trying to make you responsible for anything, but your experience and concerns about the situation are valid.
    Last edited by cjohnson; July 3rd, 2012 at 09:42 PM.
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    Default Re: Idiots

    Maybe you could offer to let them use your field/property? Plus you could have a better chance at showing them why the rack is not a good idea, maybe an upside down demonstration?
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    Default Re: Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by fidstang View Post
    Maybe you could offer to let them use your field/property? Plus you could have a better chance at showing them why the rack is not a good idea, maybe an upside down demonstration?
    I wouldn't offer anyone that is using illegal 1.3 or home made salutes to use my property. If they're that stupid to do what they are doing now, then chances are they're not being safe about lighting it either.

    I bet $20 there's a beer in someone's hand too...

    If you or your property is at risk, I'd shut it down. I love fireworks as much as the next guy but that doesn't mean I'm going to light off salutes next to my neighbors house in incorrect mortar tubes.

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    Default Re: Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by pyrokid View Post
    I would offer to sell them some real guns.
    Or loan them to him. Anything just to be safer!
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    Default Re: Idiots

    yeah...i'd have no problem if someone had salutes in HDPE or fiberglass tubes...

    but steel? i'd have to take action...dont know what it would be...but it would happen.

    i also hate the assholes, like the one that lives near me...who are out there right now lighting the odd quarter stick. after everyone has stopped within a 4 mile radius...it's time to call it a night. lets get real here bro!!!
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    Default Re: Idiots

    Literally just walked out of the bar .2 miles from my house & heard/saw 3-4" shells being popped. IT IS SO FRICKIN' DRY HERE....... I'm taking a break for a few days helping w/ regional shows and as much as I'd love to hang w/ my neighbors as usual on the 4th & put up some works, I decided today it is just not safe in a subdivision. It seems that my neighbors are starting to trust my judgement & take my professional opinions to heart

    My advice to everyone I've encountered is have fun w/ crackers in the street & plan on going here..... http://blueashevents.com/rwba/intro.html

    It's amazing....the ones that understand are the ones who don't usually "suburban party rock"

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    Default Re: Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by fidstang View Post
    Maybe you could offer to let them use your field/property? Plus you could have a better chance at showing them why the rack is not a good idea, maybe an upside down demonstration?
    Not in a million years. I would be happy to try and educate them. I think that might be a lost cause though.

    Quote Originally Posted by tradami View Post
    I bet $20 there's a beer in someone's hand too....
    Hah, I would not take that bet. I was greeted by whiskey breath and a red Solo Cup.

    Quote Originally Posted by r1dermon View Post
    yeah...i'd have no problem if someone had salutes in HDPE or fiberglass tubes...
    but steel? i'd have to take action...dont know what it would be...but it would happen.
    i also hate the assholes, like the one that lives near me...who are out there right now lighting the odd quarter stick. after everyone has stopped within a 4 mile radius...it's time to call it a night. lets get real here bro!!!
    Yessiree, they are still at it. Curfew is at 11:00, tomorrow it is 12:00. I am sure I won't have to do anything. Give a fool enough rope and he will hang himself.





    Quote Originally Posted by cjohnson View Post
    Mike, My personal opinion is that once you walked into the situation and were able to evaluate the risk, I think you have more of an obligation to the safety of the neighbors than to this moron. If this guy doesn't stop, I suppose I would have no choice but to knock on their doors of the neighbors and alert them of the danger they are in because of their neighbor's idiocy. If you don't do it today, do it another day. Just let the neighbors know that this guy is being irresponsible with product that can place their family and property at danger. You might also invite the neighbor over after this evening ends and show him your shop and explain your passion for fireworks, but also your passion for firework safety and try to convince him that shooting those salutes at such close distances places him at HUGE risk of hurting himself and neighbors, at a cost that will do more than just bankrupt him.

    Not trying to make you responsible for anything, but your experience and concerns about the situation are valid.
    Good advice as always CJ, thank you.
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    Default Re: Idiots

    Just came home from a friends house. The idiots down the way a few houses blew up, count 'em, AT LEAST 8 tubes shooting can shells as singles. Every time I heard that distinct pop of a shell that had gone in the tube. They loaded them 8 times upside down. Shook my head and laughed...then went back to my hot game of bunko I was in.
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    Default Re: Idiots

    Prolly accidently loaded only the first shell upside down. It went, and the booze-addled brains in attendence went, "WHOA! THAT WAS COOL!", and preceeded to do the next seven upside down on purpose.
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    Default Re: Idiots

    Life is hard,Its harder if your stupid,(John Wayne)
    You cant fix stupid(Ron White)

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    Default Re: Idiots

    A man was killed the next town over. I think I will put the article in my neighbors mailbox.
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    Default Re: Idiots

    A homemade tube? Come'on man!
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    Default Re: Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by fidstang View Post
    Interesting, why is it you need steel mortars when shooting large peanut cans/shells?
    Steel is used when fiberglass or HDPE won't hold up to the pressure of the lift charge for unusually heavy shells, they are not designed to contain the blast of shell going off in the tube. This is why NFPA rules/PGI recommendations have you burying steel guns. Several people here can tell you how far away they've found shrapnel from steel guns when a bottom shot blew in the tube. There was also an incident at a recent PGI convention where shrapnel from a steel gun destroyed adjacency guns underground!

    As for Mike's dilemma, I had a similar issue a few years ago. One of my neighbors had 3" canister salutes that he was lighting in PVC. He had the tube mostly buried, but he was lighting them in front of his kids. I tried to talk him out of it but he shrugged me off saying that it was safe because it was buried. If I had HDPE/fiberglass guns at that point in time I would have given one to him. Later I think I posted a thread about it here asking a similar question, and the consensus was that the "right thing" to do is to explain to them why what they are doing is unsafe and walk away and hope for the best (which is exactly what I did). I think everyone lucked out because he didn't light any more. Not sure if what I was saying got to him or if he just ran out of salutes!

    I still wonder though, if you think someone is putting children in danger should you do more? Try to be more persuasive? Involve the police?

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    Default Re: Idiots

    Mike, as much flack as I may take for this, I am going to give you my honest opinion. You live in NWI, and as you know the asshole next door to you is not going to have a problem lighting off 3in, 5in, 6in, and even 8in shells. I would personally handle this one semi aggressively like I do with the guys in my neck of the woods. Show them the proper product, briefly instruct them on how to use it, help them to get the proper materials to fire said product, and inform them that if they continue to fire in an unsafe manner you will have no choice to call the cops. the best case scenario is you make some new friends and everyone at least fires safely. (maybe we get an hpa member out of it too) worst case scenerio ... **** em ... 5/0 all the way, because if they aren't risking their lives, they are risking the lives of every single person around them.
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    Default Re: Idiots

    Echo, I agree with what you say in principle. But nobody should be shooting off professional product if there is not adequate clearance. Unfortunately you can't fix stupid.
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    Default Re: Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by echostorm View Post
    Mike, as much flack as I may take for this, I am going to give you my honest opinion. You live in NWI, and as you know the asshole next door to you is not going to have a problem lighting off 3in, 5in, 6in, and even 8in shells. I would personally handle this one semi aggressively like I do with the guys in my neck of the woods. Show them the proper product, briefly instruct them on how to use it, help them to get the proper materials to fire said product, and inform them that if they continue to fire in an unsafe manner you will have no choice to call the cops. the best case scenario is you make some new friends and everyone at least fires safely. (maybe we get an hpa member out of it too) worst case scenerio ... **** em ... 5/0 all the way, because if they aren't risking their lives, they are risking the lives of every single person around them.
    From a human interraction/communication point of view, I really admire and respect this advise. Every human being has an ego and some are bigger and more stubborn than others. Finding a way to allow someone to save face and bruise their ego as little as possible I think will alsways have the greatest chance of being successful and it seems to me that echostorms consultative approach does just that. If that doesn't work....buckle the chin strap.

    Great advise....thanks for sharing it.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Idiots

    I know this is a old thread but am new to this site and have not been around fireworks in 25 years.....back in the day everything was in steel .250 for the 3-6" tubes.....singles were buried but the finale trailer was 3" with 54 tubes on it...seen a few not lift but never a tube shatter......does everyone shoot 1.3 in the "plastic" tubes now?.......am I in the stone age?.....LOL

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Idiots

    Yes HDPE, plastic as you say, or fiberglass. Also not a lot reloading anymore. A few places are moving towards everything must be e-fired.
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    Default Re: Idiots

    HDPE is not plastic, it is a fairly advanced polymer that is extruded through molds, most HDPE pipe is rated for high pressure water lines, 160-200psi

    the big thing about HDPE is that as a material, it DOES NOT shatter, if a shell goes off in an HDPE tube it will rip, tear, and deform, but pieces will not fly off the tube, potentially killing someone, this means there is no sharp bits of shrapnel or jagged edges



  28. #28
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    Default Re: Idiots

    HDPE is in fact a plastic.
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    Default Re: Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by flying fish View Post
    Steel is used when fiberglass or HDPE won't hold up to the pressure of the lift charge for unusually heavy shells, they are not designed to contain the blast of shell going off in the tube. This is why NFPA rules/PGI recommendations have you burying steel guns. Several people here can tell you how far away they've found shrapnel from steel guns when a bottom shot blew in the tube. There was also an incident at a recent PGI convention where shrapnel from a steel gun destroyed adjacency guns underground!

    This is the kind of information that I would pass on to someone that was using steel guns, and I would just tell them look I like fireworks as much as the next guy but it is blatantly obvious that you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground and unless you shoot in a place the has the proper distances, the proper equipment, the proper permits and licenses then I am going to drop a dime on your ass. See the thing is now that you have educated this dolt and if you just stand back and allow them to proceed you are part of the problem. I would feel much better dropping a dime than sitting back knowing that I could have prevented a possibly deadly accident.
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    Default Re: Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by nater219 View Post
    HDPE is in fact a plastic.
    in a general sense it is, but its properties are nothing like most plastics, by definition it is a thermoplastic polyethylene compound

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