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Thread: Finale Chaining question

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    Member Array pyroM!KE's Avatar
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    Default Finale Chaining question

    Ok so I did the math and came up with what fuse Im gonna use for my finale..I have a total of 110 shots..The first 50 shots will be out of five 10 shot racks using 10 sec/ft fuse shooting one after another.Ohh by the way, my mortar tubes are not spaced.Then i have a 30 shot fan rack that Ill fuse with the same fuse for a bit faster pace..then One more 30 shot fan Ill use .4 sec fuse for an even faster paced puke..
    My question is with the slower 10 sec fuse chaining , do I need to secure the Shell fuse to the mortar tube so when the shell shoots It wont put out the 10 sec fuse? I was thinking of drilling a small hole right at the top of the mortar tube, putting the shell fuse through that then chaining together with the 10 sec fuse.In other words the fuse would be to the side of the mortar tube instead of on top of the tubes and also when the shell shoots since the shell fuse is secured through the hole It wouldnt pull on the chain fuse.I was also thinking this would improve timing..Im figuring Ill get about 1 1/2 - 2 sec between shots.. What is everyone's thoughts here?
    Thanks
    Mike
    Last edited by pyroM!KE; May 6th, 2012 at 09:54 AM.

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    Default Re: Finale Chaining question

    Great question Mike. I'm going to have to watch this thread because I have the same question. The shells I am firing have about 1 sec from lift to burst and about 1 sec from burst to black sky. Using the 6 sec/foot fuse this should give me a burst just before the previous shell goes black. I'm not sure about securing the fuse either.

    James

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    Member Array steelersfan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finale Chaining question

    I would think the shell fuse itself will burn slower than the 10 sec/ft. fuse will so in reality the fuse should be burnt passed the shell it just lit so it wouldn't pull the next one out of the rack.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Finale Chaining question

    Take a chunk of the fuse outside and light it. Watching how it burns will help you understand what you need to do.

    As for a direct answer....always secure the fuse. Slower fuse doesn't flop around but you want control of what is happening. You can usually use a trunk down the center that you connect the shells to. .4second/foot fuse is fast. It will essentially put all shells attached to it in the air at the same time.

    Consumer shell leaders must give at least a three second delay but not more than a nine second delay. If all the shells are the same brand then they should take about the same amount of time. If you want accurate shell timing you will have to find away around the long fuse from the shell.

    I've also found that fuse from shells...when removed from shells, makes pretty good timing for a finale. Puts the shells up fast but not to fast.
    I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.

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    Default Re: Finale Chaining question

    Quote Originally Posted by stuntborg View Post
    Take a chunk of the fuse outside and light it. Watching how it burns will help you understand what you need to do.

    As for a direct answer....always secure the fuse. Slower fuse doesn't flop around but you want control of what is happening. You can usually use a trunk down the center that you connect the shells to. .4second/foot fuse is fast. It will essentially put all shells attached to it in the air at the same time.

    Consumer shell leaders must give at least a three second delay but not more than a nine second delay. If all the shells are the same brand then they should take about the same amount of time. If you want accurate shell timing you will have to find away around the long fuse from the shell.

    I've also found that fuse from shells...when removed from shells, makes pretty good timing for a finale. Puts the shells up fast but not to fast.
    I guess my question should be would it hurt the tubes to drill a small hole right at the tip of the tube? It shouldnt hurt should it? or how else could you secure the shell leader..They will all be the same shell kit shells and the fuses are about 3 sec long..There kinda quick and will prob be even quicker when I trim about 2 inches off..

  6. #6

    Default Re: Finale Chaining question

    No problem drilling a hole in the tubes. However, I find it much faster to just tape the fuse to the tube.
    I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.

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    Default Re: Finale Chaining question

    After fusing your 10 shot racks, tape the fuse down to the tube. It works just fine. It will keep the fuse from over the top of the tube. If you have very short fused shells or cans then this may be a problem. Most can or premium shells have enough fuse out the top of a 12" dr11 mortar to tape along the side.

    In short, tape or tie each "shell" fuse to the main fuse spacing as you want, then "fold" the main fuse over and tape it to the mortars. You should be good.

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    Default Re: Finale Chaining question

    If your leaders are long enough, I would tape the fuse to the side board on the top of the rack, you can always replace that once it gets all burned up rather then having your tubes all burned and melted. Just a personal preferenece I guess.

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    Default Re: Finale Chaining question

    If the leader is just a little short can I attach it anyway? The shell slides into the mortar easily. It should just drop the extra 3/4" after it starts burning right? Or should I just drop an extra plug in the bottom?

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    Member Array pyroM!KE's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finale Chaining question

    Quote Originally Posted by JAlexander View Post
    If the leader is just a little short can I attach it anyway? The shell slides into the mortar easily. It should just drop the extra 3/4" after it starts burning right? Or should I just drop an extra plug in the bottom?
    What i would do is attach a extra bit of fuse if the leaders are too short.Thats what I would do..3/4 or 1 inch is enough to put into the chain, but my main concern with slower fuse is the shell shooting with the chain fuse close to the shell that just shot..I want to know that I know than the main fuse will not get jerked or "Shot" out..In my younger pyro years i do remember shots putting out slower paced timed shots that I was chaining on top of the tubes..I think I will just drill a hole big enough to get the shell fuse through at the top of the mortar tube..I mean these dr11 tubes are pretty darn thick and I dont think a little biddy hole will hurt anything on them at the very top..Yeah I just talked myself into doing it..
    Ohh I will take video of my finale of setup and fire...Shouldnt there be a sticky of setup and fire finales? Just the finales.. I think there should be..That would be very informative info! The base of the show is easy..The finales are,well, somewhat difficult..I think that would be a cool sticky.Just sayin...

  11. #11

    Default Re: Finale Chaining question

    Quote Originally Posted by JAlexander View Post
    If the leader is just a little short can I attach it anyway? The shell slides into the mortar easily. It should just drop the extra 3/4" after it starts burning right? Or should I just drop an extra plug in the bottom?
    I think we want to a avoid the practice of relying on short fused shells to drop to the bottom of the mortars as they are fired. In your particular situation, you're only concerned about the shell dropping 3/4 of an inch, but others may rely on a longer drop. Although you have checked each tube and know for sure that all of the shells will drop to the bottom of the mortars before they go off, an inexperienced person may not go to that trouble. We need to be careful of situations where an inexperienced shooter would assume that short fused shells will drop as the fuses are fired, but something in his set up is preventing that from happening. A shell that fires just a few inches above the bottom of a mortar can result in a dangerously low break. A shell that fires less than half way down the tube can result in a 'flip flop', where the shell hops out of the mortar no more than a few feet. For example; A paper mortar could be loose 3/4 of the way down, but have a flap of paper sticking out near the bottom. Fiberglass mortars are often 'out of round'. From time to time, shells are manufactured 'out of round'. Because of that, a simple rotation in orientation of a shell as it's loaded, could make it appear loose and ready to drop, but it could wind up hanging up before it seats at the bottom of the mortar. Changes in ambient humidity, could result in what appears to be loose shells when they are loaded, but wind up being tight at a later time when the humidity goes up.
    Last edited by graybeard; May 7th, 2012 at 10:42 AM.

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    Default Re: Finale Chaining question

    Thank You very much...I am the inexperienced guy you are talking about. I don't have the pyro background to make an informed decision on some of these things. I do fully understand how potentially dangerous some of this product is which is why I am glad this site is here. You guys have been great about answering the questions I have had so far (even when you are arguing technique amongst yourselves). I will go with attaching extra fuse to the leader to get the length I need. Sorry about hijacking the thread pyroM!KE. It went a direction I wasn't expecting.

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    Default Re: Finale Chaining question

    Im gonna try a rack fused up like this to see how good it works..The pink is 10 sec fuse on the first five shots..The last five shots is the .4sec quick fuse..Drilled 1/8 holes right at the tip of the tube..My point in doing this is to see how well the timing will be.I think it will be pretty darn good..Ill get a video on here of it tommorow night or Sunday night.




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    Default Re: Finale Chaining question

    Looks really good. Waiting to see the video!

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    Default Re: Finale Chaining question

    Looks great AND you also took care to avoid something many others often overlook. You have your main fuse running along a line that is well below the upper edge of the mortars. We often see a fuse line that is run along the top of the mortars. That can cause a situation where the flare of fire from the first lift charge going off, ignites the entire length of fast fuse instantly. Over the years, we've gotten a lot of posts such as; "Wow, my finale racks went off all at once and I don't know why....".

    Another minor point; In looking at the blue taped fuse connections; I think I see at least one, (third from the bottom or right) where the tape is pressed down in a way that it is creased between the trunk fuse and the leader fuse going to the shell. It's easy for that to to happen if you let your thumbnail create that crease when your pressing down the tape. You want to avoid that crease between the two fuses, as it can separate the two fuses and keep them from passing fire. Most consumer shell leaders have a dab of primer on the end. You want to make sure those primed ends are under the tape and not sticking out beyond the tape joint.

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    Default Re: Finale Chaining question

    I like the way you drilled the hole and fused the shells. I think I will give this a try. Will help my OCD with the neatness of fusing and I the idea of getting the fuse below the top of the mortar. Reps to you!
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    Default Re: Finale Chaining question

    Thanks guys..Ive took a little heat about trying this and how its overkill..But my point here is timing and reliability.I just want to know that I know its gonna work the way I want it to..It only took 15 minutes to drill the holes and fuse this rack up..Next time I do it, it will take even less time because I wont be drilling the holes..I can stick the fuse through the hole faster than taping the fuse to the tube..
    Im gonna shoot the rack off tonight..Stand by.

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    Default Re: Finale Chaining question

    i would tape the whole fuse,just it case there is any dew or humidity in the air. found out the hard way that these types of fuse like too soak up moisture. what you did looks nice,hope everything goes how you whant it too.
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    Default Re: Finale Chaining question

    [QUOTE=killer57;593843]i would tape the whole fuse,just it case there is any dew or humidity in the air. found out the hard way that these types of fuse like too soak up moisture. what you did looks nice,hope everything goes how you whant it too.[/QUOTE
    Heck yes I will on the 4th when I have all my racks loaded..Not on this one though because Ill just sit it down and light it.

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    Default Re: Finale Chaining question

    Finally got my video up..Shot alot faster than I thought it would..I dont think Ill even use the quick fuse now after testing..I shot a few other goodies first..This video doesnt do any justice of the noise..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT_54V4RGbE

  21. #21

    Default Re: Finale Chaining question

    I did this exact same thing with 6 10 shot racks for a show. In my case, I was looking to make fire-and-forget "cakes" out of the racks. Each was a separate "cake", and I filled them with assorted cherry picked shells from all my kits. I wanted a 1 or two at a time random fire deal, to showcase the nicest effects.

    Worked like a charm! I used WFBoom's old 10 sec/ft "fast" visco, and tape splices. The main line ran more or less over the top of the tubes, and there was no issue with pull outs. The pace was just about right. These mortars were spaced a half inch or so apart, and I deliberately left some excess fuse between shells to slow it down a smidgen. WF's fuse was fairly resistant to side ignition- I had no issues with lift flare pre-ignition.

    As Greybeard said, it is very easy to separate the two fuses when taping them together. This can result in the tape getting between them and the splice not passing fire. I've had it happen a few times...

    Your idea of holes is excellent- it's a great way to get more utility out of those g#$%@&n 15" tubes. Doesn't hurt the mortars, either. Anything is better than hanging the shells...

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Finale Chaining question

    I know alot of people do this style of fusing, and one thing that can be done to help minimize cross ignition is to utilize some Aluminum HVAC Tape to cover the fuse. This helps to prevent the cross fuse ignition.
    Quote Originally Posted by graybeard View Post
    Looks great AND you also took care to avoid something many others often overlook. You have your main fuse running along a line that is well below the upper edge of the mortars. We often see a fuse line that is run along the top of the mortars. That can cause a situation where the flare of fire from the first lift charge going off, ignites the entire length of fast fuse instantly. Over the years, we've gotten a lot of posts such as; "Wow, my finale racks went off all at once and I don't know why....".

    Another minor point; In looking at the blue taped fuse connections; I think I see at least one, (third from the bottom or right) where the tape is pressed down in a way that it is creased between the trunk fuse and the leader fuse going to the shell. It's easy for that to to happen if you let your thumbnail create that crease when your pressing down the tape. You want to avoid that crease between the two fuses, as it can separate the two fuses and keep them from passing fire. Most consumer shell leaders have a dab of primer on the end. You want to make sure those primed ends are under the tape and not sticking out beyond the tape joint.

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