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Thread: Ideas for the new RR12-CONF receiver board.

  1. #121
    Member Array Dewey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ideas for a new remote board.

    I hope the programming is utilizing the fsk rf module, it took me a long time to get everything correct and get the greatest distance possible from the transmitter to the receiver.

  2. #122
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    Default Re: Ideas for a new remote board.

    I 'm about to build nine more of Joe's 32 channel units and love the features of this new board. Could someone take a minute to explain how encoding would work for this board?

    I currently have one 12 button remote and one 32 channel system. I purchased a 4 switch encoder (little blue device with white switches) with the parts I bought to build this first unit but never fitted it as I only had the one system. I have just reboxed the remote with an Arduino Uno to control it, and my plan was to fit a switch selector unit to each system so they could all have individual codes or I could set some of them the same. Is this still the right way to go with this new board?

    I guess I am confused by the learn function. Yes it will hook up to my transmitter but what will stop the arduino firing all 10 systems if I don't fit the selector switch units?

  3. #123
    Member Array Dewey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ideas for a new remote board.

    The learn code receiver does not need any fixed coding. You push the learn button until the LED it on next to the button, with your remote in the code you want the receiver to learn push any button on the remote for a few seconds, the receiver will learn and retain in memory the code. Only one code will be saved so it will not fire off a previously saved code.

  4. #124
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    Default Re: Ideas for a new remote board.

    Thanks Deweycoon, but I must be either totally stupid, or maybe just not cut out for this electronic stuff because I still don't get it!

    So one more time for my benefit. Does the rxer "learn" to communicate with a particular txer, or is it able to "learn" it's own slat code?

    My Arduino is handling the encoding for transmission to each 32 cue system (slat) i.e it selects the slat/bank/cue, so I am not able select codes on the transmitter side anymore.

    If I have one txer and ten systems, I get that they will all work off the txer if I "teach/learn" them all, but how do I teach them all a different code to stop them all firing at the same time?

  5. #125
    Member Array Dewey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ideas for a new remote board.

    Someone familiar with the arduino with have to help you with that question.

  6. #126
    Member Array Firejunkie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ideas for a new remote board.

    The transmitters are either fixed code of learning code. the learning code transmitters are set at the factory for 1 code out of 1million+ codes, if you program the receivers to this transmitter they will all fire at the same time, unless you introduce some sort of a power switching board (like my system) to turn on the power to the main board to fire. A fixed code Transmitter is what you need to get, then make it have selectable encoding that matches the encoding signals from the Ardunio . you can then manually program new receivers to match what you have encoded already, or program them to a different encoding to fire off a different slat command. You can do this with your current remote, just attach the dip switch to the encoder, select the encoding with the dip switches and manually press the button 1 to program the new receiver using the learn button. you have to know what the ardunio code is sending out (encoding) for each slat to make it work right. It is in the code as a0 through a3 these correspond to encoding pins 1-4 or 4-8 which ever you soldered them to. You will see code that says (case 1 set slat , encoding a0 high, a1 high, a2 low, a3 low) this would be pins 1 and 2 are high and pins 3 and 4 are neutral. after you program your new boards, put all the dip switches into a neutral position (center of dip switch) to use with the computer.

  7. #127
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    Default Re: Ideas for a new remote board.

    OK now I got it. Thanks man!

  8. #128

    Default Re: Ideas for a new remote board.

    I'm thinking about building a new PyroIgnitionControl controlled wireless system to replace my old wired system that is in need of some TLC. I want to build three slats (for now) using the RR12-CONF boards and one of Joe's 32-cue designs. That part is pretty straightforward. What I'm not sure about yet is which path to go down for the controls. I can think of three approaches (I'm sure there are more).

    Scenario A
    Encode each RR12 board uniquely. Use one transmitter encoded by the Arduino.
    PROS:
    + only requires one transmitter
    + no additional relay boards required
    + no additional transmitter hardware required to expand to more field boxes later, just programming
    CONS:
    - can only fire from one field box at a time (I think that's a deal breaker)

    Scenario B
    Use an additional relay board in each field box to power each slat on/off. Each box relay would be encoded uniquely, and all three RR12 boards would be encoded alike. I believe everything could be controlled by one transmitter, using the Arduino to encode it.
    PROS:
    + only requires one transmitter
    + no additional transmitter hardware required to expand to more field boxes later, just programming
    CONS:
    - may be slow using the Arduino to encode a single transmitter for both power relays and RR12 boards? (I haven't used Arduino previously, so I'm not sure how fast it executes)
    - can only fire matched cues on multiple slats simultaneously

    Scenario C
    Use three transmitters, one paired to each RR12 board.
    PROS:
    + no additional relay boards required
    + do not need to encode transmitters with the Arduino
    + can fire non-matched cues on different boxes simultaneously (or at least as quickly as the Arduino can execute)
    CONS:
    - requires three transmitters
    - requires more I/O on the Arduino (may need a Mega?)
    - additional field boxes would require additional transmitters and programming

    I'm leaning towards B, or some variation thereof. The matched cue firing just requires a little bit of show planning. Firejunkie, it seems like you came to the same conclusion with your system, and yours works, so that's encouraging With two transmitters, do you have one hard encoded for the RR12 boards, and the other Arduino-encoded for the power relay boards? Any noticeable advantage of that over using a single Arduinio-encoded transmitter for everything?

    BTW, thanks for all of the information you guys post. I don't get to visit this forum as often as I would like, but it's a truly awesome resource.
    - Nate

  9. #129
    Have fireworks. Will travel. Array JoeRatman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ideas for a new remote board.

    There seems to be some confusion about learn mode on the new RR12-CONF board and which type of transmitter would be better. Instead of trying to respond to each persons questions or confusions, I will try to describe the how to teach a RR12-CONF board (receiver/remote) and a transmitter to talk to each other. I will also talk about different configurations of transmitters and what might be the advantages and disadvantages of using each.


    Click for full size: http://www.pyrouniverse.com/gallery2...Wireless01.GIF

    First of all, let us describe what happens when you push a button on a transmitter and what happens when the RR12-CONF board receives a transmission from a transmitter.

    In the above picture you see a transmitter on the left and two sets of three (RR12-CONF board) remotes on the right. The upper three remotes have been taught (learn) to use the same code. I will explain how this is done later. The lower three remotes each have been taught to use a different code.

    To make the example simple, assume all these RR12-CONF boards have been set to 12M mode. All the relays are momentary relays. So the 1,2 and 3 DIP switches on the board are all set to 0 position. The 4th DIP switch will be either set to 0 (fixed) or 1 (learning) position depending on whether a fixed mode or learning mode transmitter is being used. At this point, we will assume this is a fixed mode transmitter, so the 4th position is set 0. More on this later.

    Now assume that button 9 is pushed (command or value 9). The transmitter can send a value or command of 1-12, by pushing buttons 1-12. You need 4 bits to represent a binary number from 0-15. Notice the four pins on the left side of the encoder. These 4 pins go from the buttons into the encoder providing the value in binary of the button pushed. So if button nine is pushed, a value of 9 (1001 in binary) is sent to the four pins. So the first pin is high (1), the 2nd and 3rd pins are low (0) and the 4th pin is high (1). This is how the encoder knows what value to transmit.

    At the same time that the button is pushed, a code is sent the to the 8 code pins (right side of the encoder), using High (1), Low(0) or Float (Nothing or Null). There are 8 pins with three different values. This gives us 3 ** 8 different combinations or 6561 different combinations. For now assume the code being sent is HLHLFFFF (1010NNNN). We will explain later how that code is sent to the code pins.

    The encoder gets the value or command of 1001 (9) and the code 1010NNNN (HLHLFFFF) at the same time. It sends this information to the RF transmitter that converts this to radio frequency and it is transmitted. A sync bit or sync marker is sent first. This marks the start of a code & command packet. This consists of a code followed by command in "bits". Some transmitters send several copies of the command packet for redundancy and for double checking the code and command packets. Others might send a checksum or CRC codes to check the accuracy of the transmission. Whatever is sent, it is always the same length and always has the same duration. If a button is held down for a while the same information is sent again (and over and over again) until the button is released.

    Now look at the upper three RR12-CONF boards (remotes). The have all been taught/learn to use the 1010NNNN code. These remotes use the receive the same frequency as the transmitter (315mhz). They also use the same type of transmission (OOK). So for example, a OOK 315 transmitter can not talk to to an OOK 433 mhz receiver, even if they both use the same code. But a OOK 315 mhz transmitter can talk to a OOK 315 remote. A FSK 434 mhz transmitter can only talk to to a FSK 434 mhz receiver. The transmission reaches these three antenna of these three boards. It goes into the RF receivers of each remote and the information is sent to the decoder of each remote. The decoder compares the code (1010NNN) and it thinks "this packet of information is for me". It then pulls the command (9) from the packet and it now knows that relay 9 is suppose to be closed. So relay 9 gets closed on all three of the upper remotes. This effectively fires cue 9 on all three firing remotes. Those remotes could be sitting anywhere in the firing zone. Usually these three firing systems would be at three different locations, so you could fire three pyrotechnic items at once, that happen to be at three different locations. This gives you a three front display.

    When the transmission stops, the three remotes will detect this. Since relay 9 is a momentary relay, the relay will be opened on all three boards.

    Now look at the lower three RR12-CONF boards. The left board of the three has the same frequency (315) and type (OOK), but it has been taught to use a different code. The right board of the group uses a different frequency (433), but the same type (OOK). The lower board of uses a different type (FSK).

    As the same transmission is being sent, the FSK board (lower one of the group) does not respond because it does not understand the transmission at all. It similar to the transmitter talking in English, but the receiver understands only German.

    The 433 mhz OOK receiver (right one of group) can understands the language and can even "hear" the 315 mhz transmission, but it is so low (or deep), that it can not understand it.

    The 315 mhz hears the transmission and understands it. The information goes to the antenna and to the receiver. The information is sent to the decoder. The decoder sees the 1010NNN code and thinks "this packet of information is NOT for me". It then ignores the packet of information and does nothing. Now assume at a later time, there is a transmission (OOK 315 mhz) that has a code that matches the code this remote has been taught, it will then look at the packet and it will close the appropriate relay that matches the command. The other two remotes in this group will not be able to respond to the transmission because it is either the wrong frequency or wrong type. The other three remotes in the upper group, will receive the transmission, but because the code does not match their taught code, they will throw out the packet of information and ignore it.

    Let us go on a little side discussion.

    You may be wondering what is the difference between two different frequencies like 315 mhz and 433 mhz. The easiest way to think of this is as a pitch or notes in a song or music. 315 mhz would be a lower note/pitch than 433 mhz in your music.

    Let us also discussion the difference between an OOK and FSK transmission. The easiest way to think of this is AM and FM transmissions. OOK is like AM (amplitude modulation) and FSK is like FM (frequency modulation). When OOK sends a 1, 0 or F value, it is at the same frequency, but they are different amplitudes or loudness or volume. When FSK sends a 1, 0 or F value, it is at the same amplitude (volume/loudness) but each is sent at a slightly different frequency. So for example, the 1 might be sent at 315 mhz, the 0 at 315.1 mhz and the F at 315.2 mhz. If you compare OOK to singing a song, it would be like singing the same note, with three different loudness levels, loud (1), soft (f) and complete silence (0). If you compare FSK to singing a song it would be like singing a song with the same volume or loudness levels, put you only have three notes (1, 0, f) that you can use and they are very close in pitch. Hopefully you can now understand why OOK and FSK are incompatable. A OOK receiver would see a FSK transmission as all the same loudness or volume, so receiver would think it is getting all the same value (all 1s, 0s or Fs). A FSK receiver would see a OOK transmission as all the same frequency, so the receiver would think it is getting all of the same value (all 1s, 0s or Fs).



    Click for full size: http://www.pyrouniverse.com/gallery2...Wireless02.gif

    In the above diagram we have six firing systems using the RR12-CONF boards labeled A-F and four different transmitters labeled 1-4. Assume that these transmitter have the same frequency and same type. We want to teach boards A-C to have the same codes (X) and boards D-F to have the same codes (Y), but different from A-C (code X is not the same as code Y). The idea is we are going to have a three front display. A, B and C will each have 12 cues, but they will be at different locations 100' feet apart. Now, 12 cues are not enough for our show, so we want 12 additional cues at the same locations. We put D with A, E with B and F with C. So if we send the code X and command 3, cue 3 on A, B and C will fire. No cues will fire on D,E and F. Conversely if we send code Y and command 12, cue 12 will fire on D, E and F, but no cues will fire on A, B and C.

    Learn with a Learn Transmitter
    Now look at the transmitter 1. You can see the 4 pins going from the buttons to the encoder. You can also see 20 code pins going from a CHIP to the encoder. This is a learn (LN) transmitter. That chip is built into the transmitter when it is manufactured. It can only send one code to the encoder. It can not be removed or replaced. A code is burned into that chip. It always is sending the code to the encoder. The code is a value of 0 to 1,048,575 or 0 to 2**20 - 1. For the purposes of our discussion that code is the "X" we want to teach to remotes A, B and C. The remotes A-F will have to have the 4th DIP switch set to 1, to tell the board that it should be expecting a transmission from a learn transmitter. A learn transmitter sends a sync bit/mark, a 20 bit code and a 4 bit command in its transmission packet.

    To learn or teach the remotes A-C code X from transmitter 1, you do the following. You bring the transmitter near board A. Turn on the power to board A. Push the learn (LRN) button on board A and wait about 5 seconds. The learn LED will turn on. Now push any button on transmitter 1 and hold it. When the LRN LED flashes, then board A has been taught code X of transmitter 1. If you push any button on the transmitter, the corresponding relay on board A will close/respond. Repeat this process for board B and C. You only have to do this process once. You can turn off the boards. When you turn them on again, they will only respond to transmitter 1 that sends code X. The boards will remember code X until they are relearned with another LN transmitter with a different code or you deliberately clear the code from the boards. The boards only remember one code at a time or they have no code (cleared). Note: It is possible that there might be another learn mode transmitter that sends code X, but there is only a 1 in 1,048,576 chance of that happening. So the possibility has a very low probability.

    You may have noticed that this method of learning is very easy and requires not special soldering or wiring of the transmitter. It is very easy and foolproof. You may have also noticed, that at this point, we did not teach boards D-F code "Y". How can we do this? There is only one way. We have to get another transmitter. That transmitter will transmit our code "Y". We don't care what the values for X and Y are, they just have to be different. This is extremely likely since there are over a million different codes for the CHIP in the LN transmitters. So we use a 2nd LN transmitter to teach boards D-F, just like we did for boards A-C, but we use a 2nd LN transmitter and we use boards D-F.

    So when we are shooting our show, if we want to fire a cue (ie 5) from remotes A-C, we use the first transmitter and push a button (5). It sends code X and command 5 to panels A, B and C. If we then want to fire cue 12 from remotes D-F, we use the 2nd transmitter and push button 12 and cue 12 will fire on remotes D-F.

    Note that with a Learn transmitter we can use one transmitter to teach as many remotes as we want, but those remotes are in the same group (or use the same channel). If you want to have another group or channel of remotes, you must get another transmitter and teach/learn the remotes in that group or channel.

    Learn with a Fixed Transmitter using solder pads
    Now look at the transmitter 2. You can see the 4 pins going from the buttons to the encoder. You can also see 8 code pins going into the encoder. This is a fixed transmitter. You can choose 1 of 6561 codes that you want this transmitter to send. All fixed transmitters have these 8 pins and they send a sync bit, a code of 0-6561 and command code. On either side of each pin are solder pads. One side of the pins is the H (H, 1) side and the other side of the pins are the low (L, 0) side. If you want a pin to be high (or 1) you drop a bit of solder from the high pad to that pin. If you want a pin to be low (or 0) you drop a bit of solder from low pad to that pin. If you want a pin to be float (N or NULL or F), you do nothing to the pin. You get to decide what the code X will be. You get to choose it by dropping solder on the pads. If you do nothing to any of the pins the code is NNNNNNNN or sometimes refered to as no encoding. This is very common thing to do. You should avoid using "no encoding" because a lot of people do it. You don't want somebody with a "no encoding" transmitter to be able to control your firing system, because you used "no encoding" as well. Note, you can not drop solder on both the high and low pad of the same pin. This will really mess things up. So be careful when you are using solder on the solder pads. The remotes A-F must have the 4th DIP switch set to 0 (fixed). This will let the board know that a fixed transmitter will be used it will know what sort of transmission to expect (the length of the code).

    To learn or teach the remotes A-C code X from transmitter 2, you follow the same process that you used for transmitter 1. You bring the transmitter near board A. Turn on the power to board A. Push the learn (LRN) button on board A and wait about 5 seconds. The learn LED will turn on. Now push any button on transmitter 1 and hold it. When the LRN LED flashes, then board A has been taught code X of transmitter 1. If you push any button on the transmitter, the corresponding relay on board A will close/respond. Repeat this process for board B and C. You only have to do this process once. You can turn off the boards. When you turn them on again, they will only respond to transmitter 1 that sends code X. The boards will remember code X until they are relearned with another fixed transmitter with a different code or you deliberately clear the code from the boards. The boards only remember one code at a time or they have no code (cleared).

    Note: if you and somebody else are using the same transmitter (frequency and type), as you at the same show, there is a 1 in 6561 chance that you both chose the same code. An easy way to resolve this issue is to gather up all the people using a wireless firing system and coordinate testing and arming times so nobody has their system on at the same time. You can also just test your transmitter with the other persons system and vice versa to see if there are any shared codes.

    You may have noticed that this fixed transmitter with solder pads requires some solder of the transmitter. You do get to choose what code you want to use, which is not the case with the LN transmitter. Though you have fewer choices (6561 vs over 1 million).

    You may have also noticed, that at this point, we did not teach boards D-F code "Y". How can we do this? There is only one way. We have to get another transmitter. That transmitter will transmit our code "Y". You get 2nd fixed transmitter and drop solder on the pads. You have to choose a different code. This will be our "Y" for remotes D-F. We use this 2nd transmitter to teach boards D-F, just like we did for boards A-C, but we use a 2nd fixed transmitter and we use boards D-F.

    So when we are shooting our show, if we want to fire a cue (ie 3) from remotes A-C, we use the first transmitter and push a button (3). It sends code X and command 3 to panels A, B and C. If we then want to fire cue 8 from remotes D-F, we use the 2nd transmitter and push button 8 and cue 8 will fire on remotes D-F. Though, most of the time you will design your show so that you fire cues 1-12 off A-C using the first fixed transmitter and then you fire cues 1-12 off D-F using the 2nd fixed transmittrer.

    Note that with a fixed transmitter (using solder pads) we can use one transmitter to teach as many remotes as we want, but those remotes are in the same group (or use the same channel). If you want to have another group or channel of remotes, you must get another fixed transmitter (using different solder pads) and teach/learn the remotes in that group or channel. This is just like the LN transmitter, but you do get to choose what codes you want to use.

    Learn with a Fixed Transmitter using switchable encoding
    Now look at the transmitter 3. You can see the 4 pins going from the buttons to the encoder. You can also see 8 code pins going from a rotary switch into the encoder. This is a fixed transmitter with a switch to dynamically choose which code will be sent by the transmiter. Using a rotary switch or toggle switches or DIP switches you can choose 1 of 6561 codes (or 1 of a smaller set of codes) that you want this transmitter to send. In the diagram there is a 6 position rotary switch. This transmitter can send 1 of 6 codes to the remotes. You can dynamically choose which code to use during your show. This is simlar to Deweycoons s12 cased transmitter than can send 1 of 6 different codes. In effect, this is six transmiters in one. In this post:
    http://www.pyrouniverse.com/forum/sh...eless-Encoding.
    It shows how to use some DIP switches to dynamically choose between 16 different codes. This is like having 16 transmiters built into one transmitter. You could use a 8 position DIP switch to get 256 different codes. The basic idea is to wire the high or low pins on the encoder (these pins are already wired to the high and low solder pads) to switches (rotary, DIP or toggles) so you can choose which code pins you want to set to high, low or float. As before the boards will have to have the 4th DIP switch set to "0" (fixed) so they will be able to recognize a fixed transmission.

    Here is an article about reboxing the whole transmitter into a new box or panel. The fire buttons on the transmitter are replaced with either new buttons or rotary switches. Toggle switches or other switches are used to get different encodings.
    http://www.pyrouniverse.com/forum/sh...nual-sequencer
    Here is a video about reboxing a transmitter.
    http://www.pyrouniverse.com/forum/sh...-a-transmitter
    Deweycoons S16 cased transmitter is an example of a reboxed transmitter. Though, he has his own transmitter than goes into the S12. He does not use the standard transmitter.

    To learn or teach the remotes A-C code X from transmitter 3, you follow use the switch(es) (rotary, toggle, DIP) to choose code X (assume position 1 of a rotary switch). You bring the transmitter near board A. Turn on the power to board A. Push the learn (LRN) button on board A and wait about 5 seconds. The learn LED will turn on. Now push any button on transmitter 1 and hold it. When the LRN LED flashes, then board A has been taught code X of transmitter 1. If you push any button on the transmitter, the corresponding relay on board A will close/respond. Repeat this process for board B and C. You only have to do this process once. You can turn off the boards. When you turn them on again, they will only respond to transmitter 1 that sends code X. The boards will remember code X until they are relearned with another fixed transmitter with a different code or you deliberately clear the code from the boards. The boards only remember one code at a time or they have no code (cleared).

    To learn or teach the board D-F from transmitter 3, you choose a different code using the switch(es) (rotary toggle, DIP) to choose code Y (assume position 2 of a rotary switch. You teach/learn remote D-F just like you did remotes A-C, but with the rotary set to position two. Please note, you do not need a 2nd transmitter like you did with the LN transmitters and the fixed transmitters with solder pads. The one transmitter can talk to remotes A-C when set to rotary position 1 and D-F when set to rotary position 2. Since the rotary switch in the diagram has 6 different positions, you could have up to 6 groups of remotes. You can have any number of remotes in each group.

    So when we are shooting our show, if we want to fire a cue (ie 7) from remotes A-C, we use set the rotary switch to position 1 and button (7). It sends code X and command 7 to panels A, B and C. If we then want to fire cue 9 from remotes D-F, we set the rotary to the 2nd position and push button 9 and cue 9 will fire on remotes D-F. Though, most of the time you will design your show so that you fire cues 1-12 off A-C using the rotary position 1 and then you fire cues 1-12 off D-F using the rotary position 2.

    Note: if you and somebody else are using the same transmitter (frequency and type), as you at the same show, there is a 1 in 6561 chance that you both chose the same code(s). An easy way to resolve this is to set your rotary switch to code(es) that is(are) different from the other persons. You then just teach/learn your remotes to use different code(s).

    Learn with a Fixed Transmitter using a computer, Aundrino, computer port
    Now look at transmitter 4. It has a computer hooked up to both the four button/command pins and the encoding pins. This is a generic diagram. Those pins might be hooked to a serial or USB port or some other special I/O board. They might be hooked to an aundrino board. The point is the computer controls the high/low/null values of the button pins and the code pins. It is a fixed transmitter. The button functionality could be removed or left in place (to assist in learning). There is software to have your own computer controlled show. Here are some articles that discuss this idea:
    http://www.pyrouniverse.com/forum/sh...n-Special-quot
    http://www.pyrouniverse.com/forum/sh...n-Special-quot

    Learning remotes A-C is simlar to the method used with transmitter 3. You bring the transmitter/computer near board A. Turn on the power to board A. Push the learn (LRN) button on board A and wait about 5 seconds. The learn LED will turn on. If there are buttons on transmitter 4, push one of the buttons. If there are no buttons, you need to run a program that sends any command (1-12) with code X to the command and code pins. You can decide what code X will be. When the LRN LED flashes, then board A has been taught code X of transmitter 1. If you send a command with code X via a compute program, the corresponding relay on board A will close/respond. Repeat this process for board B and C. You only have to do this process once. You can turn off the boards. When you turn them on again, they will only respond to transmitter 1 that sends code X. The boards will remember code X until they are relearned with another fixed transmitter with a different code or you deliberately clear the code from the boards. The boards only remember one code at a time or they have no code (cleared).

    You then repeat the above process using a different code (Y). You decide what that code will be. Now you can write a program or run a script in a program that controls the firing of the cues in remotes A-C and D-F. So you can send code X and command 5 to fire cues 5 on A-C. You can send code Y and command 3 to fire cues 3 on D-F. You can decide on how much time to put between the firing of different cues. You could for example some cues in seqeuence on A-C and then switch to D-F and fire one cue. In fact, this system is very flexible. You could decide to have each remote on a different code. You could send a code and a command to any of the six remotes to fire any cue on any remote. If you want to fire cues 3 on A-C, you could then send three transmission one after the other to A,B and C to fire cue 3. The transmission time will be so short, that it will appear like you sent at almost the same time to each of the three remotes. Or you could fire cues left, center and right (A,B,C) with a short delay to have in sequence from left to right. The possibilities are endless. You can support any number of remotes in a group. You can have up to 6561 groups or channels of remotes. It just depends on how many of the coding pins you will hook up and how many you will support in your program.

    Can I computerize transmitters 1, 2 or 3?
    You could computize transmitter 1 or 2. The code from the transmitter 1 & 2 would be preset using the CHIP or by soldering pads. You could control the command pins (which button is pushed) by the computer, but you could only control one group of remotes with the same code.

    If the computer had several ports (USB, serial, network) then you might have one transmitter hooked to each port. The pins of each port would somehow control the command/button pins of each transmitter. Thus if you send data (bits) to each port( write a "4" to port 1), you would be pushing a button on that particular transmitter. If you send nothing to a port, nothing is transmitted to that transmitter. So you could have as many groups/channels as you have ports that you can talk to.

    You might also computerize transmitter 3, but it probably would not be very feasible or worthwhile. You could only talk to one group/channel of remotes during a show.

    Though you might write your scripting software so it could handle more than one code/group/channel. You would write your scripting software so that it stops and waits for you to change the rotary switch setting when the script calls for communicating with a different transmiiter. It would stop and say "please change the rotary to position X" and then you would have to hit a button widget to have the script continue. It would work, but I think I would find it annoying.
    Last edited by JoeRatman; May 1st, 2012 at 01:49 PM.
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    Default Re: Ideas for a new remote board.

    Updating my post since my original question about computer control was answered by Joe as he updated the post above (Thanks, Joe!).

    Rich
    Last edited by richagem; May 1st, 2012 at 08:48 AM.

  11. #131
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    Default Re: Ideas for a new remote board.

    Once again Joe, your ability to put things down in a methodical manner that everyone can understand is remarkable. Thanks for taking the time to explain this for everyone.

    If you're last section with the computer controlled transmitter is correct then Natsb88's scenario A a few posts up must be wrong where he states he can only fire from one system at a time?
    Last edited by Skweeky; May 1st, 2012 at 06:29 AM.

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    Default Re: Ideas for a new remote board.

    If I'm going to eventually attempt PC control (with multiple receivers operating independently), which transmitter modules are compatible with Options 1, 2 and 3 (not the handhelds, but the ones here: http://www.rfremotech.com/TransimittingModules.html)?

    Thanks,
    Rich
    Last edited by richagem; May 1st, 2012 at 01:15 PM.

  13. #133

    Default Re: Ideas for a new remote board.

    Ahhh, glad to be back. Thank you to those who advocated my return and I sincerely apologize to those I p'd off earlier this month!!!

    Here are my long awaited results for the testing I have done on the the RR12-CONF. In summary I'd like to say this is one magnificent board. Thank you JoeRatman for your input, intuition, and persistence. Thank you PyroU for allowing such ideas to come to fruition!

    http://youtu.be/nOYV7G4BM9Q
    http://youtu.be/srfs24tF8bM
    http://youtu.be/fuNR1-6Va0I
    http://youtu.be/UcQ9yXr8CJM
    http://youtu.be/BXyJ0PM5JUw
    http://youtu.be/7p_u6dwAzu4
    Above is the vids of my testing. Below is the pics of assembly. Feel free to critique. If you think I did a test wrong then spell it out and I will re-do. This board is really awesome and will help many of us with our firing system dreams. Thank you to Merlock, Catfish, and Cobra for inspiring some of these tests. Thanks to TRM for a majority of the hardware.
    Phew... that's all for now. Check out the pics also.The size of the pics may be too large, if so I will edit in the morning.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by bd911; May 1st, 2012 at 08:27 PM.

  14. #134
    Have fireworks. Will travel. Array JoeRatman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ideas for a new remote board.

    Those were some pretty awesome test results. I was especially impressed with the relays and traces being able to handle 25+ amps, even though they are rated for 10 amps.

    Here are some other tests results from a different tester.

    RR12-CONF & TCF100-12LN Testing
    Testing of multifunction outputs of RR12-CONF via DIP settings.
    • 12M, Dip Setting “000”
    – Proper function noted through various cycling tests of all momentary outputs with load.
    • 10M2L, Dip Setting “001”
    – Proper function noted through all momentary and latching outputs with load.
    • 8M4L, Dip setting “010”
    – Proper function noted through all momentary and latching outputs with load.
    • 6M6L, Dip setting “010”
    – Proper function noted through all momentary and latching outputs with load.
    • 12L, Dip setting “010”
    – Proper function noted through all momentary and latching outputs with load.
    Note#1: It was noted that when buttons 6&8 where also pressed like 11&12 it would also reset the board.
    Note#2: It was a bit difficult to change the configurable outputs via the 4 switch DIP due to its very
    small size. This might not be an issue as most will configure once and never change again.
    Note#3: Cycle times between cue outputs was at the fastest around 150ms.
    Note#4: Reaction time of button pressed on remote to relay contact output was <100ms.
    Note#5: Unit operated properly down to around 10Vdc then the outputs became unstable.
    Note#6: Unit operated properly up to a tested 24Vdc voltage.
    Note#7: 10amp rated cue output was not tested due to lack of high current supply should have one
    by the end of this week to test at 12Vdc @ 1.2Ohms/100w and 24Vdc @ 2.4Ohms/200w.
    The hand soldered thickened tracks seem to have different thickness in certain areas. It
    might be a good for high temperature solder to be used if not already even though the output
    duty cycle is typically very low (incase of shorted output wiring and fused relay contacts?).
    Note#8: The circuit board was not warped and good quality with no visible cold solder joints.
    RR12-CONF & TCF100-12LN Testing Con’t
    Testing of TCF100-12LN remote.
    Note#A: It was noted that all 12 buttons on the remote operated properly with no issues.
    Note#B: The side power ON/OFF switch on the remote was a nice added feature.
    Note#C: The internal circuit board was of very good quality with no visible cold solder joints.
    Final Notes: No specific issues with the Remote or the Receiver where detected at anytime and
    no specific issues with the configurable output other then no output if the DIP is not
    set to one of the specified configurations
    .
    If you have any other questions or require any specific tests to be performed with the
    unit then please feel free to contact me anytime.
    Additional current and load testing at 12Vdc and 24Vdc to be carried out later this week
    to verify track current and relay capability.
    As you can see from these tests, if the DIP switches are set to an undefined setting, then nothing happens.
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  15. #135
    Have fireworks. Will travel. Array JoeRatman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ideas for a new remote board.

    I did some more testing of some of the other features of the board.


    Click for full size: http://www.pyrouniverse.com/gallery2...R12CONF013.jpg

    In this picture there are two solder holes on either side of the green arrow. You can attach an external LED with some lead wires to these holes. That external LED can be attached to the outside of the firing slat/module and it mimics the learn LED that is on the board. I tested this in two ways. In the first test, I connected a volt meter to the two solder holes and pushed the learn switch. When the learn LED turned on, I recorded 1.9 volts across the solder holes. So I knew it was working. I then attached a LED to the solder holes (anode on left, cathode on right) and the external LED did exactly what the on board learn LED did. You don't even need a resistor. I tried measuring the amperage across the two points, with my meter, but this is not really possible because the on board LED is in parallel with the solder holes.

    Also In this picture there are two solder holdes on either side of the blue arrow. You can attach an external switch with some lead wire to these holes. That external switch can be attached to the outside of the firing slat/module and it overrides the functionality of the learn switch (just above the solder holes by the blue arrow). I tested this feature by touch a wire between the two solder holes (mimic closing of a switch) and the worked just as if I had pushed the learn switch.


    Click for full size: http://www.pyrouniverse.com/gallery2...R12CONF014.jpg

    This is the underside of the board. Notice the red arrow pointing at four pins. Originally I thought these four pins represented the 4 data pins (4 bits) that would go high based on the binary representation of the button pushed. This was incorrect. They are the VDD/VCC (power anode), RXD/Data (Data Output in TTL), GND/VSS (power cathode) and antenna. This is similar to the pins on the RR12-8M4L board. So I did some experiements to see if these pins could be used for a status LED, that would flash as data was being transfered from the receiver to the board itself. The idea is to attach a LED with at least 4K-20K resistor between the RXD pin and the GND pin. As data is transfered the voltage varies on the RXD pin and the LED will flash. Unfortunately this did not work as I expected for a board with FSK. If the resistance was too low the relays would not turn on/off in response to a button push. If I increased the resistance high enough, the flickering and flashing was barely noticeable (it was too fast). This may be because the FSK board is using 4.8K bps data transfer while the RR12-8M4L was using 2.4K bps. I think the OOK versions of the board use a 2.4K bps transfer rate so, this may still work for those boards.
    Last edited by JoeRatman; May 2nd, 2012 at 06:25 PM.
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  16. #136
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    Default Re: Ideas for the new RR12-CONF receiver board.

    Hey Joe, if you are putting a lower resistance level on the LED and its loading down
    the RXD data line you can throw a 2n3904 NPN on there with the base on the RXD
    and the collector on 5Vdc TTL power line then the emitter could drive your LED.
    The drop across would be minimal as you only need bias current for the transistor
    base to emitter to turn it on. You would need a 220ohm resistor on the LED for a
    approx 15ma current at 5vdc.

  17. #137
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    Default Re: Ideas for the new RR12-CONF receiver board.

    I got an email from Stephen telling me that they moved to a new building on April 29th. Then there was a 7 day holiday for May Day.
    Now that they are settled and back from the holiday they were going manufacture 100 RR12-CONF units in the first batch run.

    I would like to know if this is going to be enough units. If you are going to be ordering RR12-CONF boards in the near future, I would appreciate it if you would PM me how about many and what kind of board (frequency and FSK or OOK) you are interested in getting. This is not an order, it is just to get an estimate of how many units people will probably be buying in the near future. After a few days, I will then know if 100 units is enough. I will send the total numbers and types to Stephen so he can get a better idea of the amount and types of boards people are interested in. He may decide to increase the numbers on the first batch run.
    Last edited by JoeRatman; May 6th, 2012 at 07:54 PM.
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  18. #138
    Member Array not2melo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ideas for the new RR12-CONF receiver board.

    RR12-CONF & TCF100-12LN Testing
    Testing of multifunction outputs of RR12-CONF via DIP settings.
    • 12M, Dip Setting “000”
    – Proper function noted through various cycling tests of all momentary outputs with load.
    • 10M2L, Dip Setting “001”
    – Proper function noted through all momentary and latching outputs with load.
    • 8M4L, Dip setting “010”
    – Proper function noted through all momentary and latching outputs with load.
    • 6M6L, Dip setting “010”
    – Proper function noted through all momentary and latching outputs with load.
    • 12L, Dip setting “010”
    – Proper function noted through all momentary and latching outputs with load.
    Note#1: It was noted that when buttons 6&8 where also pressed like 11&12 it would also reset the board.
    Note#2: It was a bit difficult to change the configurable outputs via the 4 switch DIP due to its very
    small size. This might not be an issue as most will configure once and never change again.
    Note#3: Cycle times between cue outputs was at the fastest around 150ms.
    Note#4: Reaction time of button pressed on remote to relay contact output was <100ms.
    Note#5: Unit operated properly down to around 10Vdc then the outputs became unstable.
    Note#6: Unit operated properly up to a tested 24Vdc voltage.
    Note#7: 10amp rated cue output was not tested due to lack of high current supply should have one
    by the end of this week to test at 12Vdc @ 1.2Ohms/100w and 24Vdc @ 2.4Ohms/200w.
    The hand soldered thickened tracks seem to have different thickness in certain areas. It
    might be a good for high temperature solder to be used if not already even though the output
    duty cycle is typically very low (incase of shorted output wiring and fused relay contacts?).
    Note#8: The circuit board was not warped and good quality with no visible cold solder joints.
    RR12-CONF & TCF100-12LN Testing Con’t
    Testing of TCF100-12LN remote.
    Note#A: It was noted that all 12 buttons on the remote operated properly with no issues.
    Note#B: The side power ON/OFF switch on the remote was a nice added feature.
    Note#C: The internal circuit board was of very good quality with no visible cold solder joints.
    Final Notes: No specific issues with the Remote or the Receiver where detected at anytime and
    no specific issues with the configurable output other then no output if the DIP is not
    set to one of the specified configurations.
    If you have any other questions or require any specific tests to be performed with the
    unit then please feel free to contact me anytime.
    Additional current and load testing at 12Vdc and 24Vdc to be carried out later this week
    to verify track current and relay capability.
    I did some additional testing on the new RR12-CONF relay board before the rain comes again.
    Hooked up the unit to a 12Vdc source that can supply 20A of current if needed and connected
    10 talon style safety clips on some green visco fuses.
    All talon clips where in parallel and hooked to the number 1 relay common and N.O. contact.

    I made one mistake of checking the talon style clips before placing the visco fuse in the ends and
    second of not rechecking before I put them in parallel. If anyone does not know once all your clips
    are in parallel you cannot verify if any single one is damaged. The check current will flow back
    through the good ones and you would not be able to notice this with your LED. The only way to
    verify would be with a meter and reading the ohms and compare to the calculated parallel value.

    It seems that I damaged one of the nichrome wires on clip number 8 and while looking through my
    iPhone screen did not notice that it did not fire. This is not due to the lack of current that the new
    board can source it was due to me breaking the little nichrome wire inside the clip when moving the
    visco fuse around when installed in the clip and also from taping them down to the board.

    I am sure the 8th clip would have popped as if you watch the video the ignition was instantly for all
    that fired there was no delay or hesitation meaning there was plenty of current present via the relay
    contact and thick supply traces. The potential could be more then 15+ of the talon style clips in parallel
    if you had a extra large battery source. The only thing you would have to keep in mind is if the current
    draw over the relay contacts was over the rated current you could burn or fuse the N.O. contacts.
    Also you can only fit a specific sized gauge wire in the screw terminals on the board, my wire was very
    large (overkill) and it was a bit harder to get them under the terminal clip. (Maybe we can find the max
    gauge wire that the terminals can support?)

    The new board should have no problem of popping a large number of ematch's in series I have yet to
    try this but I am sure it would be no issue for the new board.

    I have included the video link to my channel on Youtube for you to see, I did make the mistake of
    saying all 10 had popped due to me watching on the iPhone screen at the time of ignition. It maybe
    hard to notice but the 8th visco did not light due to the damaged nichrome wire, I verified this after
    the test was complete.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwkLa...yer_detailpage

    This new board is a real amazing little unit and I am looking forward to picking up a few once they
    are ready for sale! I have not found any issues so far with the design or general operation yet.

  19. #139
    Have fireworks. Will travel. Array JoeRatman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ideas for the new RR12-CONF receiver board.

    not2melo, you can send in a pre-order if you want. I already sent in an order for five boards.
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  20. #140
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    Default Re: Ideas for the new RR12-CONF receiver board.

    Hi Joe,

    Thanks for the info, Echo emailed me the the other day.

    I was just trying to figure the combination needed for the OpenPyro software.
    Was thinking I can use "Option 2" receivers Type: OOK Super-heterodyne RF Module RM1SHS adopted, high sensitive, reliable, steady.
    then TCL2000-12 remote as in "Joe Ratman Special" or think the TM1000-4 works also?

    Is there any real benefit of 433.92Mhz over 315Mhz?
    If I can firm this up then will place an order ASAP.

  21. #141

    Default Re: Ideas for the new RR12-CONF receiver board.

    Quote Originally Posted by not2melo View Post
    Hi Joe,

    Thanks for the info, Echo emailed me the the other day.

    I was just trying to figure the combination needed for the OpenPyro software.
    Was thinking I can use "Option 2" receivers Type: OOK Super-heterodyne RF Module RM1SHS adopted, high sensitive, reliable, steady.
    then TCL2000-12 remote as in "Joe Ratman Special" or think the TM1000-4 works also?

    Is there any real benefit of 433.92Mhz over 315Mhz?
    If I can firm this up then will place an order ASAP.
    I'm planning to use OpenPyro. I ordered the RR12-CONF boards "Option 2" and TCL2000-12 transmitter. I went with 433.92MHz, but I'm not aware of any major benefits of either frequency.
    - Nate

  22. #142
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    Default Re: Ideas for the new RR12-CONF receiver board.

    If you order the FSK (option 3) you can use the S-12 remote form Deweycoon, and their are plans being laid out for control with this unit with the pyroignition control software that open pyro uses.

  23. #143
    Member Array not2melo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ideas for the new RR12-CONF receiver board.

    Thanks for the info, anyone know the time line for this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Firejunkie View Post
    If you order the FSK (option 3) you can use the S-12 remote form Deweycoon, and their are plans being laid out for control with this unit with the pyroignition control software that open pyro uses.

  24. #144
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    Default Re: Ideas for the new RR12-CONF receiver board.

    About a month for the controller

  25. #145
    Have fireworks. Will travel. Array JoeRatman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ideas for the new RR12-CONF receiver board.

    The boards are now available!!!!

    The boards are coming, the boards are coming... NOW!

    I just received an email that my pre-order for five RR12-CONF boards was shipped today. So the production boards are done. The pre-order wait is over. Now go out and buy some.
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  26. #146
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    Default Re: Ideas for the new RR12-CONF receiver board.

    I got the same mail. Unfortunately, they shipped 433MHz instead of 315MHz. It wouldn't matter that much to me except for the fact that I've already purchased 315MHz antennas...

    Update: Turns out they did ship the 315MHz parts and put the wrong thing in the email. Woohoo! Can't wait to get them and start building!
    Last edited by richagem; May 23rd, 2012 at 11:44 PM.

  27. #147

    Default Re: Ideas for the new RR12-CONF receiver board.

    My boards arrived today
    - Nate

  28. #148
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    Default Re: Ideas for the new RR12-CONF receiver board.

    Where do you order these from? I seriously cannot find the product page.
    Neopg
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    Visit www.StarFireSales.com

  29. #149

    Default Re: Ideas for the new RR12-CONF receiver board.

    Quote Originally Posted by lil pyro View Post
    Where do you order these from? I seriously cannot find the product page.
    There isn't a product page. The details are in an earlier post and you can email them to place an order.

    service 'at' RFRemotech.com

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeRatman View Post
    These are the receiver and transmitter options (type and frequency) for the RR12-CONF board for Pyro Universe members. You must specify the type and frequency for each RR12-CONF board when they are ordered. The transmitter has to match the type and frequency of the RR12-CONF. The RR12-CONF is manufactured with the specified type and frequency and can not be changed after they are made.

    Reciever Options:
    Option 1:
    Type: OOK Super-regenerative RF Module RM1SG, adaptive.
    Frequency: 315Mhz or 433.92Mhz
    This is the cheapest board. This is the same receiver and transmitter used in the original RR12-8M4L board.
    Technical specs http://www.rfremotech.com/RM1SG.pdf
    Price: $19.8 per unit for any quantity of PU member's order.

    Option 2:
    Type: OOK Super-heterodyne RF Module RM1SHS adopted, high sensitive, reliable, steady.
    Frequency: 315MHz and 433.92MHz
    Technical specs: http://www.rfremotech.com/RM1SHS.pdf
    Price: $24.2

    Option 3:
    Type FSK RF Module RM1FM adopted, high sensitive, reliable, steady, excellent antijam. FCC certified.
    Frequency: 434.760MHz
    Technical specs: http://www.rfremotech.com/RM1FM.pdf
    Pricing of RR12-CONF: $31.8 per unit for any quantity of PU member's order.

    Transmitters:
    For Receiver Options 1 or 2:
    TCL2000-12, $12.8 per unit. OOK type, Fixed Code, range 2000m, 315MHz or 433.92MHz selectable;
    TCL2000-12LN, $13.5 per unit. OOK type, Learning Code, range 2000m, 433.92MHz;
    TCG500-12, $5 per unit. OOK type, Fixed Code, range 500m, 315MHz or 433.92MHz selectable;
    TCF100-12LN, $10.2 per unit. OOK type, Learning Code, range 100m, 433.92MHz, FCC / CE certificated;

    For Reciever Option 3
    TCF500-12, $11.5 per unit. FSK type, Fixed Code, range 200m, 434.760MHz, FCC certificated.

    Stephen recommends option 2 (RM1SHS).
    Currently there is a limited quantity of the option 3 (RM1FM) receivers, while the option 1 (RM1SG) and 2 receivers (RM1FM) are plentiful.
    The units will be for open sale in 4 weeks (end of May, 2012)

    FYI: rfremotech is currently in the process of moving to a new building (twice the size), which may be why the boards won't be available to purchase for another 4 weeks.

    If you have any question, please feel free to contact Stephen or post here.

    PS: You can pre-order if you wish.  
    - Nate

  30. #150

    Default Re: Ideas for the new RR12-CONF receiver board.

    I didn't realize that the boards don't come with antennas. Can anybody recommend an appropriate antenna? I couldn't find anything suitable on Amazon and everything on eBay is overseas, so it would probably be a Mouser or Digikey order. I already have SMA cable assemblies to run them to the outside of the cases.
    - Nate

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