"Follow the leader" an Observation

[climber]

Now that phantom has gotten away with charging what they do. All the other brands see their financial success and are every year inching their prices to phantom's level. For the enthusiast buyer this is bad news. Phantom keeps rediscovering new highs in consumer acceptable prices and all the others are following suit. I realize phantom has some nice stuff. I also realize my used to be reasonable sources for nice stuff are seeing Phantom's pricing and following their lead. I guess all of us are to blame as well as the casual fireworks users for allowing them to lead us into paying the prices. I know this exploration technique and they will continue to push the price peak market test until we all say to Phantom and the others "Enough". Just to let you all know what I discovered when I went to China, Liu Yang. The average price including International shipping of the better 500g cakes I saw including shipping to my door was $4.50 to $5.00. These prices were quoted I am sure much higher than what the high volume dealers are paying. The enthusiast user in any market segment leads the industry for the suppliers. Maybe it's time to lead them to the poorhouse if they don't do something about these prices!!!!!!! Or maybe someday the very assertive Chinese will bypass them and sell directly to the end user and realign their supply chain.

[JoeRatman]

The answer to this problem is really very simple. It is called "Group Buy". You get together with some pyro friends and you buy cases of fireworks from dealer or vender at wholesale prices. Check out the Pyro Events section. There is already plans for some group buys, that you might be able to join.
http://www.pyrouniverse.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=13

[climber]

I'm a pretty high volume retailer so I am not sure if a group buy would help me lower my cost further or not. It might be worth a try though.

Thanks

[JoeRatman]

Since you were talking about Phantom, I assumed you were talking about retail prices. In which case, a wholesale group buy would always beat out Phantom's retail prices by an extremely large margin. But, I think you have to have a minimum of $5000 to get Phantom wholesale prices. I haven't seen what their wholesale prices are and if they even compare at all with wholesale prices at some other dealers.

Of course, you can deal directly with China, but then you need a LOT of money to order a whole container of fireworks. That is usually way more any group buy could ever manage arrange.

[Diamond Dave]

Joe,
Just so you know, this man has the money, he is just looking for the best deal. We are talking to people in China right now about buying containers (more than one). I just got back from a buying trip with him two weeks ago. Sorry, we didn't buy any fountains.
Diamond Dave

[graybeard]

It is my understanding that the recent realignment of Chinese currency on the world market, is the primary reason for an across the board increase in all chinese goods (about 5%). I have trouble going with your indication that the enthusiast buyer leads the pricing. I believe that pricing remains with the law of supply and demand, and the brand loyalty of the seasonal buyer. As for Phantom, brand identification is very important to a lot people, particularly among the seasonal buyers and the younger crowd. Phantom's slick marketing, artwork, and packaging, lend as much or more to their success as the quality of the item. Just as with any brand, Phantom has some great stuff and also a lot of so-so items. It's a pretty good bet that if you had two identicaly performing items; one with generic labeling, and one with Phantom labeling, a 12 year old kid would pick the Phantom item without question. As for the Pyro enthusiast, most all know where to get the best price on a quality item, even without the group buys. Even loyal Phantom customers know what is a rip off and what is not. When the 4th of july tents go up here in Missouri before the 4th, there are several large corparate brands that do well, because of their brand identification, even though they have rip off prices.

[PyroReview]

Of course, you can deal directly with China, but then you need a LOT of money to order a whole container of fireworks. That is usually way more any group buy could ever manage arrange.

Actually, that can vary from 2 to 5 containers depending on who you are working with, and each container is 40 ft long. Some have a case limit...for example one requires that you purchase 5,000 cases.

[climber]

Well it appears so far in this thread the enthusiast buyer has no end to what they will pay for the items. This is also bad news. I am quite familiar with buying and the import processes. This has nothing to do with my original post. I am certain in 2006 the end user will see a cost increase well above the "actual" currency exchange and shipping cost changes. Also the big suppliers in the US are not hurting in the profit area thanks to all of us. My point is that this year more than any other I would encourage all to complain about the prices, attempt to negotiate a lower price and be prepared to pass on the product and try a different supplier if they don't play ball. If done by many maybe they will get the message. After what I have seen in China with 5 different labels being place on the same cake. I 've come to the conclusion that "Product loyalty is a rediculous way to buy fireworks".

[PyroReview]

The thing of it is, though, is the "average" person that purchases fireworks wont notice or care. They're used to paying "retail" prices for fireworks, and those are already much higher than they should be.

However, most smaller establishments (the mom and pop fireworks places) will offer "wholesale" prices to their frequent buyers.