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Thread: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

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    Default Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

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    Last edited by brocade; August 25th, 2010 at 09:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    We got a couple cases of the solar flares to use this year. I testing, they have worked just fine as long as they were single ignition points. Sending up fronts will still require the use of ematches, for us anyways, as I've had inconsistant results firing these in multiples. FYI, I'm using a digital pyromate system (24 volts).

    Large, mostly e-fired shows are matched at the plant and then shipped but shows that utilize electric and hand firing are usually matched on site.
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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    Really?......most shows have the product matched, THEN shipped to the site? Not what I have seen, with the exception of the stuff matched in China but I thought that was being done away with, and transporting anything matched was a no no? I have seen some pretty large shows where all product was matched in the field, and not moved again. Maybe it's a regional or company to company preference.

    My limited experience has been the exact opposite of the OP.
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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    Generally we e-match most shows on site, but for large pyro musicals were we have to pull the shells out of the cases and label them, well match them as we are labeling the shells.

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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    Quote Originally Posted by pyro29 View Post
    We got a couple cases of the solar flares to use this year. I testing, they have worked just fine as long as they were single ignition points. Sending up fronts will still require the use of ematches, for us anyways, as I've had inconsistant results firing these in multiples. FYI, I'm using a digital pyromate system (24 volts).

    Large, mostly e-fired shows are matched at the plant and then shipped but shows that utilize electric and hand firing are usually matched on site.
    You have an idea by chance how much these cost per case?
    Im thinking if they cost more than e-match, they wont be a big hit.

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    PyInTheSky.com Array WildWilli's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    The ONLY products I have ever seen pre-e-matched are some proximate fireworks. EVERYTHING else, we e-match at the site. We also have to un-e-match EVERYTHING if there is a rainout or no show before we can transport.
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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    Really?......most shows have the product matched, THEN shipped to the site? Not what I have seen, with the exception of the stuff matched in China but I thought that was being done away with, and transporting anything matched was a no no? I have seen some pretty large shows where all product was matched in the field, and not moved again. Maybe it's a regional or company to company preference.

    My limited experience has been the exact opposite of the OP.
    The company I worked for this year did all matching on-site, but I had a conversation with another gentleman over the weekend and the company he works for has all their product pre-matched at their warehouse and then shipped to the site. I guess it really just depends on the company's personal preference. Personally, I would prefer matching on-site even if it meant I needed to bring on extra personel for a large shoot. The thought of a truck full of pre-matched product bothers me a bit. I realize the matches are shunted, but still...

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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    I've been aware of two incidents with igs in QM before the works were loaded. one where someone wanted to remove the ig and cut into it firing the shell on the bench.The other where someone stepped onto an igniter inside a leader -again a shell went up in the open.

    Since these I've never considered soft cased igs as safe for transport in devices. Prox stuff usually has igs inside the hard tube so it is better protected.

    In the workshop the leader gets a cue number taped on. ON SITE the leader gets an ig inserted and the number repeated on the wire tail. Shells and mines don't get an ig til they are in the tube.

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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    E matching should be done on site. My two concerns would be accidentally ripping the e match out while pulling it out of the box, or crushing the e match while moving boxes and such. Clip ignitors seem like a good idea for the bread and butter shell body of your average 4th of july show.
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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    Most product now comes with EMR's (e-match receptacles). I'd consider these safe enough for pre-e-matching. The EMR's provide protection and the e-matches do not need to have their shrouds removed/pulled back to use these.

    Pre-e-matching into leaders can be done safely (have done so for a large club shoot), but *everyone* who handles the product really needs proper training and supervision. Best avoided when possible.
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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    The city shoot we did this year was all pre-matched Sunny product...not sure if it was done by the importer or the factory, but it made life alot easier when we had to do a quick setup/teardown.
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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    I've done some tests with e-match and i've gotten it to fire by gently hitting it with a hammer on a steel table. I've also cut one with shears and had it pop so yes they are pretty sensitive. I should have videoed the tests as proof but I was mainly doing them for my own couriosity.

    The ematch recepticles are really nice and save time. I liked them a lot for matching shells.
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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy7978 View Post
    I've done some tests with e-match and i've gotten it to fire by gently hitting it with a hammer on a steel table. I've also cut one with shears and had it pop so yes they are pretty sensitive. I should have videoed the tests as proof but I was mainly doing them for my own couriosity.

    The ematch recepticles are really nice and save time. I liked them a lot for matching shells.
    I had a buddy show me a video. A guy did a few tests of how sensitive. He took two boxes that weighed 20lb each and he set anE-match head between each on the edge. He got it lined up and dropped the box from FOUR INCHES and it popped. That was a little shocking. Granted he didn't have a rubber cover on them (those do help) it was still suprising. Even 2 non conductive surfaces will set one off.

    Ill try and find the video in my mess of E-mails.

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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    Most squibs I've seen have a hard, almost clear shroud on them. Never seen pre-matched product.

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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    While commonly (and erronously) used interchangably, squibs are very much different than e-matches or igniters.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squib_(explosive)

    vs.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_match
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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    Every E-match I've seen has a blue or green plastic shroud (probably HDPE) around the head about the size of a ladyfinger. The head looks like a regular match head (red) with a clear coating to protect the pyrogen which is usually antimony trisulfide and an oxidizer. This is similar to the composition used in the famous Globe torpedoes which is why it is friction and impact sensitive.
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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    Product should NEVER be shipped when ematched. The only exception to this is product thathas had the ematches installed at the factory.

    There have been far too many incidents of accidental ignition when transporting and handling ematched product. There have been several companies that used to pre-ematch product that have changed their procedure within the past few years as more evidence has shown it to be an unsafe practice.

    The follow up to this is that with ematch ports widely availabe and installed in nearly every shell made....Why would you ematch anywhere other than on site as you are loading the shells? It DOES NOT save time to install the ematch earlier than that....In fact it may be more time consuming to use pre-matched product.

    Lets think about this....
    You insert the ematch (dont pull the shroud back) in the ematch port, Load the shell in the tube, and connect the wire to the slat.
    VS.
    You attach the ematch to the shell, put it back in a box, (then at the site) you take the shell out of the box <which may mean untangling wires from all the other shells in the box>, Load the shell in the tube, and connect the wires to the slat.

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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike in CO View Post
    Most product now comes with EMR's (e-match receptacles). I'd consider these safe enough for pre-e-matching. The EMR's provide protection and the e-matches do not need to have their shrouds removed/pulled back to use these.

    Pre-e-matching into leaders can be done safely (have done so for a large club shoot), but *everyone* who handles the product really needs proper training and supervision. Best avoided when possible.
    With the EMRs there really is no reason to pre-match the shell, I have found it to be counter productive. They have simplified the process as well as making the process safer.
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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    Quote Originally Posted by strobes View Post
    You have an idea by chance how much these cost per case?
    Im thinking if they cost more than e-match, they wont be a big hit.
    We only bought two cases and paid .19 each.
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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    How reliable are they in comparison to commercial e-match though. I don't e-fire much myself but I still want 99% reliability or more
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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    We've had nofailures when firing only ONE "SF" at a time. More than that, in fronts, have proven irregular
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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    I've had 100 percent success with both quickburst and daveyfire. Several hundred matches. Now I dip my own pyrogen matches, getting 80 percent success or so with 50+ gauge nicrome. Still working on it obviously. I use mine in rocketry mostly, but have used them on 1.4g fireworks.

    Beyond that, the ematches I've used in B items have come from the source.

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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    Quote Originally Posted by pyro29 View Post
    We only bought two cases and paid .19 each.
    I am not doubting you, but that is way under their published pricing. My understanding is that they start at .65 and go down, in case pricing above 14 or 15...

    I like the idea of these things, even at the .65 price point... I think you can't put a price on safety. The problems with firing multiples in series or paralell will be an issue with some...I guess it you could just add more modules or juice

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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    Quote Originally Posted by pyro29 View Post
    We only bought two cases and paid .19 each.
    Wow, at FOB pricing its still about six cents cheaper each compared to e-match

    Can it support the weight of a shell like an e-match would?

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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    This is something I can agree on, in that everything I've e-matched has been on-site.
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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    GK, you are correct that be it you e-match a shell days before or the day of, its still going to take the same amount of time, but if come show day and you only have 3 hours to set up, the only option is before hand.

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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    Quote Originally Posted by strobes View Post
    GK, you are correct that be it you e-match a shell days before or the day of, its still going to take the same amount of time, but if come show day and you only have 3 hours to set up, the only option is before hand.
    How does it take any more time to insert an ematch in the shell (with an EMR) as you are loading it? It should take no longer to do that than to have read my previous sentance.
    If time is short.... have more people setting up the show..... prematching isn't going to save you time.
    Your statement may have been true when you had to cut leaders and install the matches. Although a lot of the folks I know can match a shell almost as fast that way....
    I used to get shells prematched..... and usually by the time you get the ematch wire and shell leader untangled from the others, you could have ematched and loaded 2 shells.

    BTW I rarely set shells on top of mortars. It really never made sense to me....take them out of the box, install ematch, load, wire, done....why have a bunch of shells sitting on top? Just another potential hazard if there is an accidental ignition IMO. If course this only works if they are properly labeled and the mortars set up correctly.

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    Last edited by GK; July 21st, 2009 at 10:56 PM.
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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    i have seen many many many photos of shells sitting on top of mortar tubes. for one thing you can arrange them into the correct tube if you have a pre-arranged set firing order. if you dont - you can ensure you get a good mix of effects rather than having all of one effect bunched up together.

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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    Things to consider.

    From what I know the bigger the show the more off site matching.

    Many countries have given industry specific approval for off site matching.

    Off site allows matching in a controlled environment. Control over climate, work procedures, tools, surfaces, static, quantity of product etc.

    Superior quality control because fewer people involved and easier to supervise work.

    Allows more efficient joining of quick match where multiple shells on single ignitor.

    Static discharge is more likely through the action of touching in the vicinity of the bridge wire vs the match lead wires (this is how I have interpreted various studies). Handling of this part of the match in conjunction with pyro would be best done in a more controlled environment.

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    Default Re: Ematching on or off site and new Solar Flare Ignitors?

    Quote Originally Posted by Georgie-Tiger View Post
    i have seen many many many photos of shells sitting on top of mortar tubes. for one thing you can arrange them into the correct tube if you have a pre-arranged set firing order. if you dont - you can ensure you get a good mix of effects rather than having all of one effect bunched up together.
    Yep, lots of people do that and if you are shooting a 'bucket toss' show you would want to lay out the effects/colors in firing order....But if your shells are numbered before hand there is really no need to do that.

    This is where the show designer should come in, in the way the show is cued and a good crew who can really read a show script and set up the mortars/racks so loading goes quickly.

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