Potential system designs

[Firejunkie]

Ok I have been really getting hyped up on building my own system using the e-madeinchina boards,I have read the 32cue system threads,the computer controlled ratman special,the 144 cue thread etc etc.here are my thoughts /Ideas

the 144 cue system in this thread is pretty straight foward using the 12channel momentary board for the fire circut,and the 12 channel latched for the slat selection,and alotof expensive wire,the type of cable runs $1.50 - 2.50 a foot,thats anywere from $150 to $250 for 4 25ft lengths.if the main cue board fails the whole system is down.Now if you put a 12ch momentary board in each slat box with just the power and ground select from the main box,you reduce your costs in cable,and increase your redundancy.

On the same note,if the single channel receivers such as the RR1-L will work with the 12ch remote you could put on in each slat box to feed each board (I assume the boards can be programed to the same remote)when you select the slat you ground the system and can now fire that slat box,without firing the other boxes (their receivers will not be latched until you select them)then you have a true wireless system at the same costs for a wireless/wired combo system.This is the same way the "BH-4 / 16 / 32 " systems work that pyrotubes.com sells.

Make sense?

[Firejunkie]

Ok so after much deliberation I have decided to build a 144 cue wireless system,unlike most system I have seen,mine will be 12slats with 12cues each all seperate and switchable (think BH 12,16,36 systems).

I have played with the 12-1 e-madeinchina system,and plan on using it for the 4th.Nice system for the price and you can expand on it,but it will get pricy(even with a group buy deal) to go beyond 36 cues.Plus all those batteries, wow $40 to load up 16 boxes and 2 remotes plus my bh16 system for another $20.

So here is my design thoughts,it is based of the 12cue wireless designs pretty much everyone is doing, I will use (12) RR12-mt boards and (12) RR1-L latching boards.each RR1 will control the voltage input to the RR12 boards,the RR12 boards will be 413hz ones with all being encoded the same,to the same remote.The RR1 boards will be on a second remote all coded the same and programmed to each button individualy (or as many as you want on a singe button,like the 12-1 systems)each slat will be self contained and self powered.I would select the slat box (A,B,C etc etc) the RR1 then latches the circut and powers up the RR12 board,at that point I can now fire the cues.I wanted a very manuverable system (like the BH16 I have)and be able to spread the slats out,program them as I see fit according to the show layout.

here is the diagram for you to see if there are any problems

[JoeRatman]

How much amperage can that one channel board handle? I thought it was something like 3 amps? It appears that you will be sending full firing power through that one channel board. Not sure if it will be able to handle that.

Why not instead, make the 1 channel board, just power up the 12 channel board (positive and negative terminals of the 12 channel board). Then run test and arm power through the relays on the 12 channel board. So when the 1 channel board is on, it turns on the power to the 12 channel board.

I did something like this with my wireless designs with the key switch. I had the key switch only power up the board. The arm/test power did not flow through it at all. This allowed me to have a low amperage key switch (cheaper) to turn on the power to the board. The board itself only needs about 0.1 amps or so.

[Firejunkie]

Ok so instead run the power + from the on/off/charge switch into the 1ch board,then run the output to the positive of the board?Like this

[JoeRatman]

Yes, that diagram is what I described.

[Firejunkie]

specs for that board,Stephen ye said that it could be spec'd out as a latch board

* Model No.: RR1L
* Type: RF radio
* Frequency: 315MHz or 433MHz selectable
* Operating voltage: 12V
* Decode: Learning Code
* Control Type: Momentary or Toggle (Selectable through Jumper)
* Relay: 10A 30VDC / 10A 250VAC
* Size: 38mm x28mm x 22mm

[Firejunkie]

I have built 3 boxes based on the following design and so far everything works as expected.I used the 24 cue design instead of 12 cue one because I could fit the extra cues.

[fashionheadhunter]

Very cool looking. Pyro Hedgehogs.

[Hfireworks]

Very cool looking. Pyro Hedgehogs.

That's what I was thinking, cool though.

[Firejunkie]

The "cases" I used are old 24volt battery chargers for scissor lifts,these are dead units, they are free , and are very robust.I wish I had saved more earlier in my career I have thrown out hundreds.I have 7 so far and average 2-3 a month.

[Arthur Brown]

OK someone help me with the logic of the single channel latch board please.

If you have a 12 chan latch board, selecting another channel unlatches the last channel selected. With a single channel latching board will channels UNlatch when another channel is selected and latched? Or is a single channel latch really a toggle board.

[Firejunkie]

The single channels board is used to turn the main board on/off, much like a toggle switch on a wired system to turn each slat on/off.

The original idea was a single channel latching board to turn each box on/off, also these boards would be learning code, so I could program each box to turn on/off with a button touch, and also to allow for programming of multiple boxes to a single button(much like selectable encoding using dip switches). So I could program 3 boxes to button 1 for lets say fronts, the button 2 has 1 box programed for a cake board so on, so on.Each time you push a button on the "box selector" remote the last boxes latch board will turn off.

However latch boards were not available for the learning RR1 boards, these are set to toggle, you must push each button once to turn on then once more to turn off, however to good side effect is that (using the program example above) I turn on button 1 fire bank "w" cues 1-8 for my front, then push button 1 to turn off again, push button 2 fire cakes on bank w cues 1-8, the press button 1 again now all three boxes are active for a large front on lets say bank x cues 1-8. Make sense ?


Here is the schematic.

[TRMPyro]

Very timely post, I am wanting to tackle a wireless system this winter and this looks very interesting. Looks like you took out the continuity LED's when you went to 24 Cues?

[Firejunkie]

No the continuity leds are there both in the schematic and the boxes.In the schematic they are the red led's in the NC position of the 12channel board, when the system is in test mode or fire mode, if you have continuity on the cues of the selected bank, the corrisponding led's will be lit, when in test mode you can "fire" the cue and the light will go out to let you know comunication is good, in fire mode the light will go out when that cue has been fired.If you switch to another bank, the led's will again lite up for any cue having continuity.

In my boxes the Continuity led's are green, and the bank selection ones are red.The setup just uses less led's then a design having one for every cue on the slat.More cost effective and easier to package in the small boxes I have.In the pic of the yellow box you can see the power is on, bank "w" is selected and the cues that have jumper wires on them are lit green.

[BobinNC]

I like that design. Saves LEDs while being very useful. About how much did you spend in parts and supplies on each 24 cue box? I would be very interested in making something like that. 24 cues is a very handy number for smaller shows or for cakes at a larger show. And I think the hedgehog disgn looks great. The metal case will withstand the embers and flaming debris much better then the plastic cases that I have seen. I have already burned my 20 shot pyromate hobby box a bit even though I carefully put a protective cardboard box over it every time. Am I the only one to use such a lame way to cover it?

[TRMPyro]

I see it now, thanks for the clarification. So you used the toggle version of the single channel board? How would the opperation of the box selection be different if you used the latch? Once a box or groups of boxes are selected you use 9, 10, or 11 to choose between bank X, Y, or Z? So this could be accomplished with just 2 remotes for the whole system, one for box selection and one for bank/firing. Thanks again for sharing this schematic/design it looks awesome.

[Firejunkie]

You got the basic operation of the system, 2 remotes, one for box(s) selection and the other for slat/cue selection. The difference with the 1channel latch boards is that if you push button 1 to pick box one, then hit button 2 to choose button 2 to turn on box 2, box one will turn off.With the toggle boards you can turn on box 1 then box 2 and box 1 would still be on until you pressed button 1 to turn it off. The original thought was to use the latch boards but e-made in china said the latch boards were non-learning and could not be used with the TCL2000 remotes (they can reprogram for it at a cost) the toggle boards are learning boards so each box does not have to be perminantly set to a particular button, you can program as many as you like to one button, via the learn function.This allows easy setup in the field to arrange the boxes as needed, and also to allow easier interface with an Aurdino board later for the rebox of the remotes.

This is not as cheap as the selectable encoding via dip switches, but for me made really good sense for easy operation.each 12ch board is encoded the same. At some point some of these boxes will house sequencers and the toggle boards will trigger the sequencer internally(they can be set to momentary mode as well).

[Firejunkie]

here is a short video of the basic operation

http://www.pyrouniverse.com/gallery2...hp/photo/21911

[TRMPyro]

In regards to the rebox of the transmitters for both box selection and cue firing could you use a TM4000-4 Transmitter Module, or multiples of them to get the cue count you need. I attached the PDF for the module. I had asked e-madeinchina for a suggestion to make the rebox easier and they came back with this. More expensive than breaking down the transmitters but may be a cleaner rebox. Let me know what you think.

[Firejunkie]

I like that design. Saves LEDs while being very useful. About how much did you spend in parts and supplies on each 24 cue box? I would be very interested in making something like that. 24 cues is a very handy number for smaller shows or for cakes at a larger show. And I think the hedgehog disgn looks great. The metal case will withstand the embers and flaming debris much better then the plastic cases that I have seen. I have already burned my 20 shot pyromate hobby box a bit even though I carefully put a protective cardboard box over it every time. Am I the only one to use such a lame way to cover it?

Some how missed this sorry, with the cost of remotes not counted in and no cost for my cases, about $75 a box, the remote cost 12.50 each but can be spread out over however many boxes you choose to build.Most parts came from

allelectronics.com (resistors, led's, diodes,header connectors, batteries)

Terminals
http://myworld.ebay.com/hongkongsuperseller/

Led holders
http://cgi.ebay.com/50-x-Copper-Chro...d=p3911.c0.m14