Spent more last time at Retail or 1st time WS??

[camjoe63]

I used to be a Phantom frequent shopper. I still like some of their stuff till this day. I dabble in the WS group buys and have made a trip down to CT on my own for the April discount. I find you spend more on cases because of the lack of assortment you get buying cases. You need to buy 20 cases of various things to make up the show you want to put on. WS has saved people money but for the average back yard pyro, retail has it’s place among us. I usually spend $600 but this year it’s over $1,000 so far and I am not done yet. I need the 500g stuff for my finale.

[Matt B]

I used to be a Phantom frequent shopper. I still like some of their stuff till this day. I dabble in the WS group buys and have made a trip down to CT on my own for the April discount. I find you spend more on cases because of the lack of assortment you get buying cases. You need to buy 20 cases of various things to make up the show you want to put on. WS has saved people money but for the average back yard pyro, retail has it’s place among us. I usually spend $600 but this year it’s over $1,000 so far and I am not done yet. I need the 500g stuff for my finale.

There's plenty of Assortment deals wholesale.
Check out some of the websites that are offering Pyro U discounts.
Plenty there unless they're out of stock..

[WWhite]

Yeah, I know why this got started too. This is a sad attempt to prove an invalid point.

No 'sad attempt' here. The results speak for themselves and prove a point. Since everybody "knows" why I asked the question...let me add, the question was asked in its pure sense..."at which time did you spend more?" Not "how much more did you get?" Not "how bad a deal is retail?" Not, "how much more do you shoot now that you've gone WS?" That was taken and ran with...which is fine....pyro is meant to be fun, we all share in that joy.

The empirical question remains and has been answered. From the pure sense of how much is spent...WS causes the avg. person to spend more than when they were buying retail.


Feel free to start a poll on when you got more product retail.v.WS, I'm sure it'll be 100% saying WS. I don't dispute that. I'm not going back to retail for 90% of my purchases....and after finding substitutes/replacements for the retail I do buy...it'll be 100% WS.


I just wish I had the willpower to be in the, currently, 19.57% who spend the same.

[tim]

I averaged about $1400 a year retail and got like 25 500g cakes 10 200g and 150 shells roughly each year.First wholesale buy i spent $$1200 and doubled the quantitys.

[russell]

"Lies, damn lies and statistics"

You're jumping to conclusions based on insufficient data. The study is far too flawed to be meaningful and the sample set is too small.

For example, I buy more not because I can buy it cheaper, but because through PyroU I have taken part in MANY events that I would not have known about had it not been for the acquaintences I've made here.

I joked about it earlier, but in truth, had I never met any of the folks here, I would have bought maybe 1/10th the amount of product I have in the last year or so.

Additionally, learning to build "shows" rather than hand-lighting singles has influenced my spending habits. This has nothing to do with WS.

You measure one factor of many and pronounce your point proven.

I heartily, though respectfully, disagree.

No 'sad attempt' here. The results speak for themselves and prove a point. Since everybody "knows" why I asked the question...let me add, the question was asked in its pure sense..."at which time did you spend more?" Not "how much more did you get?" Not "how bad a deal is retail?" Not, "how much more do you shoot now that you've gone WS?" That was taken and ran with...which is fine....pyro is meant to be fun, we all share in that joy.

The empirical question remains and has been answered. From the pure sense of how much is spent...WS causes the avg. person to spend more than when they were buying retail.


Feel free to start a poll on when you got more product retail.v.WS, I'm sure it'll be 100% saying WS. I don't dispute that. I'm not going back to retail for 90% of my purchases....and after finding substitutes/replacements for the retail I do buy...it'll be 100% WS.


I just wish I had the willpower to be in the, currently, 19.57% who spend the same.

[WWhite]

I'm happy the set is 'too small'. If more knew of WS, our little group may no longer get WS pricing. A few of you who buy a LOT, still would get WS pricing...but the masses of this site would not.

I purposely put in the qualifiers to the question to give the statistic more meaning, albeit very very focused. You may have spent more after learning of WS in the time following, or AFTER meeting ppl who you enjoyed which meant you spent more on WS.

If you generalize the question, little is proven, and hence why I put in specifics on when the purchase was made. i.e. learning about 3 other WS'ers you could have bought from which may be learned months after your first/primary WS purchase.

[St1dinoh]

I used to be a Phantom frequent shopper. I still like some of their stuff till this day. I dabble in the WS group buys and have made a trip down to CT on my own for the April discount. I find you spend more on cases because of the lack of assortment you get buying cases. You need to buy 20 cases of various things to make up the show you want to put on. WS has saved people money but for the average back yard pyro, retail has it’s place among us. I usually spend $600 but this year it’s over $1,000 so far and I am not done yet. I need the 500g stuff for my finale.

you simply need to discover the miracle of assorted cases. look at your case pack order for anything that isn't packed X-1.

in other words, if it says 12-1, it's a case consisting all of one thing. if it says 1-4 you get 4 different cakes in that case.

if it says 3-4 you get 3 each of 4 different kinds

you want variety, the mixed cases are your gold mine.

I'm happy the set is 'too small'. If more knew of WS, our little group may no longer get WS pricing. A few of you who buy a LOT, still would get WS pricing...but the masses of this site would not.

bullshit.

everyone would simply go back to combining there orders into one massive pyro u order and get the same exact prices in a group.

I purposely put in the qualifiers to the question to give the statistic more meaning, albeit very very focused. You may have spent more after learning of WS in the time following, or AFTER meeting ppl who you enjoyed which meant you spent more on WS.

bullshit.

just because someone starts shopping wholesale doesn't mean anyone is holding a gun to your head to buy 50 cases of product.

tell ya what, you pull a dollar ammount out of your arse and we can both put together a list of what that money can buy you. you shop the ghost, i'll shop wholesale and we'll see who can get more for the money.

not only can i get more for the money, but you'll be shooting two of the same thing in most cases and in a lot of cases i can shoot singles.

not only can i beat you on price, but i can beat you on variety and in a lot of cases, quality.

if you want to get real technical i'll just buy a whol ton of 4/1 500 gram shows and tell you i'm shooting the same show 4 years in a row.

If you generalize the question, little is proven, and hence why I put in specifics on when the purchase was made. i.e. learning about 3 other WS'ers you could have bought from which may be learned months after your first/primary WS purchase.

bullshit

the way i shop, i cherry pick. i buy a little from everyone. i have a budget, and i spend within it. i find i spend a majority of that budget at one place (millers) and i grab a case or two of must haves from everyone else.

---

now

with all that said, there's not a damn thing wrong with someone buying anything at phantom. most (damn near all) of us shopped there at one point. if you look at the old forums some of the hottest items spoken about there were phantom items (emerald city, round red dahlia, silver sonic warheads, blue wave, thunder sticks, etc...). nobody here says you can't shop at phantom, but a web poll set out to prove some big point about how we are all liers when we talk about saving people money is a joke.

again, there's no need to be the internet white knight for phantom shoppers.

what little "harrasment" we dish out is all in good fun and only meant to help people and coax them into making a smarter more logical purchase. your hollow attempt at proving to people that wholesale "costs" them money is dishonest or worse. bottom line is you are costing people money by misleading them into thinking wholesale is a mistake.

[upNsmoke]

The poll is flawed which is why I didn't vote because it does not prove a point The only thing it proves is that we enjoy the wholesale opportunities we're so graciously extended so much that we WANT to buy more .

It's like if I see something I normally buy on sale at the grocery store. If ground beef is on sale for 99 cents a pound when it's normally $2.99 i'm going to buy my $2.99 worth and then some because it's a good deal.

[FireStrter]

I spent the same WS as I did year before last retail. I always had coupons or went to places that had BOGO since I bought retail. Last year was my first time buying WS thanks to this site. I had all 500g cakes and learned how to fuse them thanks to this site.

[Tyler306]

I was spending about $1100 in retail at a local stand that had some pretty decent retail prices...but then I discovered WS and it turned me into a greedy S.O.B. and I buy all that I can get my hands on now!!

[coachtimmyj]

It's like if I see something I normally buy on sale at the grocery store. If ground beef is on sale for 99 cents a pound when it's normally $2.99 i'm going to buy my $2.99 worth and then some because it's a good deal.

Very good analogy, if only others could understand this

[WWhite]

bullshit.

Thanks for the eloquent post...a real page turner.

I think I was pretty specific in my question. Nowhere did I say in my original post that you'd get more or less product, that was ppl chiming in ...it zeroed-in on 2 very distinct purchases and asked at which time did you spend more...period.


I've read in countless phantom bashing posts about "going WS will save you money". Depending on how you think about it...it does and it doesn't. IF you have self-control or happen to be on a strict budget you can get more product(STILL not saving money there) ....OOOOOR....you could "save money" and get the same amt. of product as last year and spend LESS...i.e. YOU SAVE MONEY. I don't care that you can throw more product in the air...that wasn't the question. If you're $200 short on the rent b/c "WS was such a good deal you had to buy more"...maybe it's best you don't go WS. Some ppl don't have that willpower. Some ppl may lose their jobs after having bought a bunch of pyro....the bank or landlord doesn't care that you could pay him in 500g cakes that you got a deal on.


You're entitled to your opinion, I even respect it...but from your post you believe wholesale is for everyone. It isn't. Everyone doesn't spend as much as you or live under the same circumstances or have the yearn for pyro you have. How much a person spends matters whether WS will work for them. Not everyone lives spitting distance from a WS'er. Not everyone can( or wants to) drop more than $100-$200 total..even WITH a group of friends. That matters if you have to drive an extra 300 miles just to get to a WS'er over ghost or mom-n-pop stands.

What I don't respect is you telling me what I think or how you feel I'm portraying the question simply b/c you're reading into/beyond the question. I made it very clear how the question was asked. And any Phantom lover or WSer reading the full thread and my posts wouldn't be confused in the least. I guess everyone can be an ass sometimes.


As for the harassment, some ppl in their orig post of their phantom stash have even said they knew of WS and DID NOT CARE, yet people still feel they need to chime in saying they wasted their money or they could get twice as much. There is good-natured ribbing (which neither of the above responses are) and their is just rubbing it in people's faces. A good quote would be for those ppl: "Don't pi** on me and tell me it's raining"

everyone would simply go back to combining there orders into one massive pyro u order and get the same exact prices in a group.

I have no predisposition to be a "white knight" for Phantom as much as you are for WS. I've been in 3 GBs within the past 9 months, b/c of time constraints and scheduling, I couldn't make the date for 2 of them so just bought for myself w/ no splits. With my schedule, doing the splits w/ other PU members wasn't an option...so again depending on people's circumstances, what you profess may or may not be true. Just b/c it is true for you, doesn't make it so for everyone else.



Enjoy your pyro everyone...it's just over 26 days until bliss and much less and the poll closes

[WWhite]

Very good analogy, if only others could understand this ::

Understand that he just said he ended up spending more? Pretty clear to me.

I know the point ur inferring CTJ, it isn't lost on me and understand the intricacies better than most. Just b/c I ask the question at a strict numbers level just means the question was lost on too many people when they chime in about "but I have more pryo!!!!" NOT the question posited.

I digress...to me the post is dead as the fingers grow weary of trying to explain what seemed to be a pretty clear question.

[russell]

I've read in countless phantom bashing posts about "going WS will save you money". Depending on how you think about it...it does and it doesn't.

this is just silly. of course it does. you're poll does nothing to indicate whether people can or do save $ purchasing wholesale.

it does indicate that many folks started spending more since joining pyroU. some, immediately after joining.

it isn't the wholesale pricing that makes people double or triple their budget. it's learning to plan shows, and putting on many more shows that in the past that does it.

if someone spends over their budget, there is no correlation to that and reduced prices here.

[russell]

the fingers grow weary of trying to explain what seemed to be a pretty clear question.

the question is indeed clear. it's the conclusion you draw from it that is flawed.

though i do agree that if i had $100 only and phantom was 3 miles and the nearest wholesaler was 4 hours, i'd go to phantom.

[fashionheadhunter]

So I guess what you are saying is that Phantom shoppers are able to control their spending habits, and people who buy wholesale are not.

You will never be able to convince me that you can't do better buying wholesale than retail.

And as for that guy in the Phantom thread who said he has plenty of money and isn't interested in saving money, why was he so proud of all his coupon deals with Phantom? Just doesn't ring true, sorry to burst your bubble. The guy is tied in to Phantom somehow, and shilling the forum. No other explanation.

[cexshun]

I think you're over complicating. Let's look at the essence of the arguement. With WS, are you paying less for the fireworks? Yes or no. Talking about people going over budget or over indulging because they are excited at the deals they are getting only complicates the issue, and I feel you are taking advantage of that.

$200 at WS and retail. Which will get you more. THAT is the question. The question is not, and never should be, you can get a lot more product for a lot less money, but I wouldn't recommend it. Some people get so excited over the money they save and the quantity they get that they actually spend more then they usually do.

I honestly thing you are adding complexities to where none exist. Guess what, I bought a sub compact car. it gets 3x the gas mileage as my old truck. However, now I can afford to go on long road trips which causes me to fill up 4x as often. Am I not saving money on gas?

[danmagicman]

Time is money.

So, yes, you did just spend a lot more money buying wholesale because you spent the time to invest in an ego measurement contest.

Damn, I spent too much money on beer because I bought a case of it at Sam's club.

[russell]

In defense of Dr. G. I don't think he was trying to make this a "who's smarter than whom" contest. I just happen to strongly disagree with the assertion he makes.

[lil_mikey69]

I spend a couple hundred dollars every year. I always have regardless of wholesale or retail shopping. Of course I'd love to spend more, but that isn't always an option. In the past I've spent as much as $500 at retail. I had a great time and a lot of good product too. This year I personally only spent $300(Same as last year for my first wholesale purchase), but guys I shoot with put in money too so we ended up with $1,000 worth of stuff wholesale. No small amount of fireworks for certain.

I'd say my typical budget for the past several years is anywhere from $200-500 dollars. I'm going to shop where I can literally get the most bang for my buck. I've never been a Phantom shopper though, other local places with better prices for sure.

[mortarguy]

And as for that guy in the Phantom thread who said he has plenty of money and isn't interested in saving money, why was he so proud of all his coupon deals with Phantom? Just doesn't ring true, .

lol.

no, I don't need to save money really. and I only mentioned the coupons. I didn't boast about them, or brag about them, or claim them to make retail cheaper than wholesale. in fact, there were only three I used.

A shill for phantom huh. I think its that thinking that I get the biggest kick out of, and biggest laugh. some of you just cant accept that some people either cant use, or don't want 15 cases of fireworks. I mean, now you have me working for phantom as a reason for not going WS

It just blows my mind. the phantom shoppers have no problem with people wanting to buy WS. But (some of) the WS just can't accept that some people have very valid reasons for shopping the purple ghost.

I'll sum it up for you one more time since you now think I work for phantom and am just here trying to drum up business.

1. I live in a state where anything that blows up or leaves the ground is illegal. even though the cops will look the other way on the 4th, they won't if I start lighting cases of product off, or continue for hours.
2. I live in a residential area, and can not safely light off large numbers of fireworks.
3. Being as I'm kind of limited in the quantity I can buy, the only reason for me to buy WS would be to save money. but since the amount I can safely (and without hassle from the cops) light only runs me about 300-400 at phantom, I see no reason to start, or go in on a wholesale group buy of products I know nothing about so I can maybe knock that 3-4 hundred down to 150-200.

now does that make sense?

my thread over in the phantom forum just blew my mind. I never claimed phantom to be anything more than my choice of vendor. I never said they were better, cheaper, or of a higher quality. I told everybody I knew about wholesale, and it just wasn't for me. I've looked at patriotic's website, products, and price list. Its even closer for me than phantom. And, I NEVER tried to talk anybody into shopping at phantom. I don't care where you or anybody else buy their fireworks from. And thats probably why it puzzles me why you and a few others care so much about where I buy mine from.

but for some reason, and I still think its tied to some kind of insecurity, a few people persisted in telling me how wrong I was. And from there it turned int the condescending, smarmy kind of "you'll figure it out eventually" kind of comments.

all because retail purchasing worked better for me.

[fashionheadhunter]

mortarguy, that was a very good explanation. I am more than happy to apologize to you for my erroneous conjecture.

I hope you enjoy your shoot.

[coachtimmyj]

Yes, that was a good explanation and it sounds like Phantom does work best for you. If you remember over on the other thread, I stated that there was definitely a place for Phantom in the fireworks industry for many reasons. Although you have to admit spouting about how you weren't interested in wholesale because you had plenty of money sounded kind of odd, especially since in the same thread you mention using coupons and what a good deal you got and on another thread you post about wanting to save money on fuse Not that you owed anyone an explanation, I'm glad you did post this. Have a great 4th.