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Thread: CPSC and Updates

  1. #1

    Default CPSC and Updates

    Im not trying to bum everybody out but, I see a lot of new members joining the forum and i think it's very important to make sure everyone's aware of this situation.I haven't seen any mention of this for quite some time.
    If you are aware,then skip the link and read below.
    http://www.fireworksfoundation.org/CPSC-Handel.aspx

    IMO if FireFox loses,the entire pyro community(not just hobbiests)Is doomed.Not that fireworks haven't been under attack forever but...

    Check this out.
    Copied from rec.pyro

    This is an open letter to members of the PGI and pyrotechnic hobbyists
    everywhere for the purposes of updating you on the Consumer Product
    Safety
    Commission (CPSC) situation, asking your cooperation in (not) dealing
    with
    that agency, and soliciting your continued support.

    Most or all of you should be aware of the ongoing efforts by the CPSC -
    your
    government at work, spending your tax dollars - to eliminate your
    access to
    certain critical chemicals - predominantly oxidizers and metal fuels -
    and
    other materials necessary to pursue your hobby. They seek to achieve
    this
    by persecuting - and prosecuting - our suppliers. You should also know
    that
    the Fireworks Foundation, in conjunction with these suppliers and with
    the
    assistance of the PGI, has made a stand and is engaged in a vigorous
    and
    expensive defense of Firefox Enterprises from the CPSC assault on their
    business and our hobby.

    Recently, we have become aware that a few well-intentioned hobbyists
    have,
    for various reasons, contacted the CPSC related to this matter. Most
    often
    these contacts have been made in an earnest and otherwise-admirable
    effort
    to ensure that their hobbyist activities are fully legal.

    We ask that you please do NOT have further contact with the CPSC.
    Here's
    why, in the simplest possible terms.

    The only interest the CPSC has in us is the extermination of our hobby.
    They will exploit any contacts you have with them for whatever
    information
    they can extract from you to support that purpose alone, regardless of
    how
    innocent or well-intentioned the contact is. Because you are
    reasonable,
    law abiding, and helpful and assume the same of others, you believe a
    dialogue can be mutually helpful. Wrong. The CPSC, smiling like the
    Cheshire cat, will engage you in dialogue, pump you for information,
    and use
    that information to more effectively destroy us. When they have gotten
    all
    they want from you, you will never hear from him again. Don't do it.
    Just
    say no.

    The CPSC's stated purpose is to eliminate injuries to consumers from
    illegal
    flash-based explosives (e.g., "M-80's"). We have no doubt that this is
    true. However, they apparently believe that pyrotechnic hobbyists are
    the
    source of this problem. They ignore evidence to the contrary - it
    doesn't
    suit their preconceived notions (or, perhaps, their real purposes).
    They
    will be cheerful and seem friendly, and pay lip service to "finding a
    cooperative solution to our chemical supply needs," but from bitter
    experience we've come to understand that "cooperation" with them means
    we
    talk, they listen and question, and then they do nothing to help us,
    but
    instead use whatever they've learned against us in any way they can.

    We can only conclude that they simply want to get rid of us.

    Almost a year ago, when the Firefox case was just beginning, we, too,
    naively thought they would help us find a solution. To that end we and
    a
    group of pyro community members including Bill Bahr, Frank Kuberry,
    Harry
    Gilliam, Joe Domanico, and others met at CPSC headquarters with Gib
    Mullan,
    who is in charge of the office responsible for this issue. Also
    present
    were members of his staff including Jim Joholske and a phalanx of
    lawyers.
    We of the pyro hobbyist community came to the meeting ready to help
    find a
    way for the CPSC to perform their mission to interdict and prosecute
    unlawful manufacturers and distributors of "M-80's" while hoping to
    reach an
    accommodation that would spare our hobby.

    To our surprise and dismay, it was made abundantly clear to us by Gib
    Mullan, both explicitly and implicitly, that the purpose of the meeting
    did
    NOT involve any attempt by the CPSC to help us survive but was ENTIRELY
    for
    their benefit in gaining information about us. Beneath a polite
    veneer, the
    meeting and some later follow up conversations had the unmistakable
    tone of
    an adversarial cross examination. Subsequent events have only served
    to
    confirm that their real interest was limited to better preparing
    themselves
    to exterminate us. There have been no further contacts by the
    participants
    in that meeting with the CPSC.

    This is why attorneys tell clients NOT to talk to the police. They are
    NOT
    there to help you. They are there to build a case against you. The
    more
    you talk to them, the more you jeopardize yourself. We now believe
    that the
    more we talk to the CPSC, the worse off we are. Their interests are
    inimical to ours. We will now talk to the CPSC ONLY through our
    attorneys.
    Please let our lawyers be the only contact between our community and
    the
    CPSC.

    Despite all this, we do not feel that the CPSC is inherently evil.
    Rather,
    we feel that they are fundamentally and irredeemably possessed of a
    misperception of which all our reasonable efforts have failed to
    dissuade
    them. They really believe that if they get rid of hobbyist fireworks,
    they
    will make a significant impact on illicit salute manufacturer and
    distribution. They ignore evidence to the contrary- for example the
    fact
    that our LEGAL hobby consumes - in one year - an amount of dark
    aluminum
    (about 1,000 pounds in 2004) approximately equal to that involved in
    ONE
    SINGLE BATFE seizure of an ILLEGAL salute manufacturing and
    distribution
    operation in the Wisconsin/Illinois area which involved over 100,000
    devices
    and over 2900 pounds of flash powder. Thus, our hobby uses in one
    year,
    less aluminum than a significant illicit manufacturer has on hand at
    any
    given time.

    The CPSC cites accidents where hobbyists are injured in pursuit of
    their
    hobby. None of the cases we are aware of have involved injuries to
    anyone
    other than the hobbyist and none have involved sale or distribution of
    fireworks to the public. The injuries in question are sustained by
    adult
    hobbyists engaging voluntarily in an activity known to entail some
    risk.
    Like skydivers or SCUBA divers (hobbies in which the CPSC displays no
    detectable interest), they accept these risks and, occasionally, suffer
    the
    consequences. These cited examples are NOT cases of unsuspecting 10
    year
    old kids getting hurt by some illegal fireworks sold to them by an
    unscrupulous and profiteering bootlegger, but the CPSC seems not to
    perceive
    the distinction.

    We know that the CPSC will read this, but, we have nothing to hide.
    Their
    preconceived notions notwithstanding, we are NOT the problem and
    getting rid
    of us will do nothing to address their ostensible concerns (though you
    can
    bet the breast-beating press release will say otherwise).

    If you think all this a bit paranoid, let us offer two further things
    in
    evidence:

    1) Please feel free to contact any of the other participants from the
    pyro
    community at the aforementioned meeting with the CPSC for a second
    opinion.

    2) In the very recent past, both the PGI and the Fireworks Foundation
    were
    formally notified by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), within a week
    of
    each other and by the same IRS agent, that they are to be the subject
    of tax
    audits. According to the agent, these audits were "referred," not
    random,
    audits, meaning that the IRS was requested by a third party to audit
    the
    Foundation and the PGI. By IRS regulation, the agent cannot tell us
    who or
    what agency referred us for audit, but, in our opinion, it takes very
    little
    imagination to figure it out.

    Yes. That's right. Some "unknown entity" has, by written request, set
    the
    IRS on us. You see, until we decided to help Firefox, all other CPSC
    targets, lacking the resources to defend themselves, obligingly rolled
    over
    and died. As the only entities with a prayer of mustering adequate
    resources to defend our community, the Guild and the Foundation have
    now
    become the targets. If we can be neutralized, killing off the
    remaining
    chemical suppliers will be as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.

    We have no great fear of the audit - we have good attorneys and we
    have, we
    believe, behaved in a scrupulously legal manner - but the audit will
    deplete
    our meager resources, both in terms of money and (volunteer) time and
    focus,
    and thereby constrain our ability to mount a proper defense - which is,
    of
    course, our adversary's objective.

    Understand what is going on here: Our government is spending your tax
    dollars to impair our ability to effectively use your contributed
    dollars to
    defend ourselves against -- our government. All the money in the pot
    is
    ours, and much of it - the majority of it - is being used by the
    government
    to either attack us or constrain our ability to defend our community.

    Are you angry yet?

    Our advice to all members of our community is as follows:

    1) Do not have any contact with the CPSC.
    2) Refer all contacts to our lawyers through the Board of the PGI, the
    Board
    of the Fireworks Foundation, or John Steinberg.
    3) If you are a target personally, hire a lawyer and do only as the
    lawyer
    suggests.
    4) PLEASE DONATE ALL YOU CAN, IMMEDIATELY, TO THE FIREWORKS FOUNDATION,
    either by mail at The Fireworks Foundation, C/o Mike Swisher, 14511
    Olinda
    Blvd. N., Stillwater, MN 55082, or online via credit card/PayPal at
    http://www.fireworksfoundation.org.

    Thank you.

    Tom Handel
    1st VP, PGII

    John Steinberg
    Trustee, The Fireworks Foundation
    Last edited by Colin; December 11th, 2007 at 10:09 AM.

  2. #2
    Member Array St1dinoh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cpsc

    even though reading that again made me loose my lunch it's a great idea that it gets posted again for the new members...

    on a similar note (to new members) these are the same people who monitor this and other pyro-related forums looking for favorable reviews of particular items. which is why we you are asked specificly to not under any circumstances post info on an overloaded or "VERY LOUD" item. because as we've seen in the past this great item is usually pulled within days if not hours from the unintentional post triggering this response from the firework natzi's.

    just be carefull what info you put up here...always assume your posts are being monitored by a sniveling little pussbag agent fromthe CPSC just waiting for you to slip up. kinda reminds you of that kid on recess that always told on everybody for everything....

    and most of all if you can spare anything to send to the defense fund they can use all the help they can get. the very future of this hobby depends on the successful defeat of these kill joys.
    www.millerfireworks.com

    PM me your email address for a price list, and check out our youtube page www.youtube.com/MillerFireworks.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Cpsc

    This is important guys. Let's get behind the PGI.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Cpsc

    From what I understand, the CPSC has also (successfully, in at least 1 case) pressured the big chemical suppliers into not selling anything to repackagers. This includes places like Firefox, Skylighter, etc. This is extremely bad news! They do do some good things, but ignoring blatantly obvious facts because don't jibe with their preconcieved notions just REEKS of fanaticism and bias. The more I hear, the more deeply disturbed I am by the actions of this ageny, and the LACK of action by the Government. We're talking honest businesspeople, taxpayers, and law abiding citizens here- NOT mobsters, criminals or others of that ilk. The way they are attacking reminds me of a rabid dog! This crap makes me so mad I could spit!
    They have no worries about me talking to anyone from this agency- I have nothing civil to say to any of them!

    Sorry for the hijack, but Outlaw got raided? What happened there, Leeca? Please tell me it was something they did wrong, and not more mindless, overzealous intimidation by the CPSC brought on by a thoughtless post... Or worse, overcompetetiveness by others in the business.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Cpsc

    Basically someone ratted outlaw out. The CPSC went staight for the comic rockets. That was all they took. Possibly a Narc at the shoot?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Cpsc

    pyrofun has it right - I wouldn't call it a raid....they took the rockets...and yeagh someone narc'd
    WPA.
    APWC.
    Listen to them. Children of the night.
    What music they make.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Cpsc

    uhg. DOWN WITH NARCS!!! Seriously, why would somebody do that? An overzealous do gooder? Jealousy? someone who read about the shoot and decided to see for themselves what the "hot" items were? That stinks!

  8. #8
    Moderator Array DennyMo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cpsc

    The last slide in this briefing provides an interesting visual of "how much is too much".
    http://www.cpsc.gov/BUSINFO/China/Fireworks.pdf
    To get the right word in the right place is a rare achievement. - Mark Twain

    Pyro Haiku
    If we burn money,
    Might as well be colorful
    And make lots of noise.

  9. #9
    Moderator Array DennyMo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cpsc

    Here's the transcript of a recent press release. The first few paragraphs discuss recent sentencings of a couple chemical suppliers.
    http://www.cpsc.gov/Trans/pod031006.html

    Amazing, the way they spin the "crimes", the suppliers sound like horrible evil-doers. But I wonder if the hobbyist industry should take a closer look at how it chooses to whom it sells its wares? I think the CPSC's position that only ATF-licensed manufacturers should be allowed to make purchases is wrong-headed in the extreme. But I'm not sure what the "right" answer is, either.
    To get the right word in the right place is a rare achievement. - Mark Twain

    Pyro Haiku
    If we burn money,
    Might as well be colorful
    And make lots of noise.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Cpsc

    Good point, Denny. Knowing that this can happen and that BIG BROTHER is actively trying to trip you up, and get you to sell them questionable items, SHOULD be enough to make us more careful. That it isn't is sad...
    The jerks who make these illegal devices that the CPSC and Media so love to hold up as examples, should be busted. Those who knowingly sell kits to make these items are playing with fire- you're gonna get burned eventually!

    Personally I think they are scapegoating these items and suppliers. The real problem is those who illegally manufacture! Additionally, as long as there is a demand for big, loud bangs, and $$ to go with it, you'll never stop it.

    Can anyone explain why Titanium and Magnesium are on the banned list??? They're not toxic or dangerous like the rest of the chemicals listed. They ARE key components in making the colors white and silver, though.

  11. #11
    Member Array Dan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cpsc

    As you can see, these people continue to need OUR financial support. I know Jack Leonard was on the old forum quite a bit asking for US ALL to Paypal the "support fund" that is helping firefox with the court battle against the CPSC. I ENCOURAGE all of you to continue to donate whatever you can. Every little bit helps. I try and do at least $25 every quarter ($100 a year) to this fund, PLUS I've joined the PGI within the last year, and that club fee will help fight this battle as well.

    Again, I encourage you all to donate, and/or join the PGI and help Firefox and others like them defeat our "worst nightmare"

    Dan
    VICTORY FIREWORKS and HALE'S---Best fireworks at the best prices! period.
    Type 54 1.3g permit holder
    Indoor/proximate certified
    Member PGI
    Pyroreview Administrator

  12. #12
    Moderator Array DennyMo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cpsc

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyroman6000
    Personally I think they are scapegoating these items and suppliers.
    Precisely. "The real problem is too hard to solve, but we can make folks think we're taking action if we go after someone that looks like they're part of the problem." I don't think the feds really want to quash legitimate hobbyist pyro, I believe them when CPSC claims they're trying to stop distribution of illegal (and unsafe) explosives devices. I've seen the government screw up good intentions so many times that I'm certain that's what's happening here, the hobbyist is "collateral damage".

    Here is something else to consider. If you're a hobbyist, expect to run up against CPSC/ATF/other and be accused of manufacturing illegal explosives at some point. What's your response, your best defense? Anal note taking and record keeping. Have a journal of what you've tried, what you've done, what materials you've used, what the results were, etc. Also, be able to demonstrate the safety precautions you implemented. It's no guarantee, but if I were a judge with limited knowledge of pyro, and a case of a "bomb maker" came before me, I'd be more inclined to leniency/dismissal if the individual could demonstrate his true intentions.
    To get the right word in the right place is a rare achievement. - Mark Twain

    Pyro Haiku
    If we burn money,
    Might as well be colorful
    And make lots of noise.

  13. #13
    Member Array Don F's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cpsc

    the problem is Hobbiests are being targeted . sorry denny But its just a fact .
    You will seldom be charged with making illegal fireworks but will be charged for having Bomb making materials.
    Oh pyroman6 who told you titanium and magnesium werent dangerous .
    fine magnesium can be quite exposive simply by adding water , let alone what can happen when an oxydizer and static are combined with it . Titanium sure its safe as are all chemicals when used properly try pouring a pile of ti sponge on the floor and sliding your shoe across it should make a nice flash fire . The banned list includes all metals under 100 mesh and all major oxydizers its a crock plain and simple . but we can bitch all we want if we dont send funds to fight this thing you can kiss chemicals good bye. which means an end of PGI and soon after an end to consumer fireworks , followed a bit later by 1.3 which will be killed off by the DOT making it impossible to ship or transpirt shows .
    If every member of this forum would send $100 that would be a start, if every PGI member sent $100 as well it might start looking like we are serious .
    Dont call the CPSC , call you reps. and let them know in no uncertain terms we wont stand for this . If they wont stand up for us we will stand up and do our level best to elect people who will reguardless of party . As long as they can keep us devided they win to hell with party lines . ask straight forward questions of your reps and those running for office and tell them straight up either you help us in this fight or we'll support the other guy. start a few petitions to recall reps that arent supporting our cause and watch how much support other throw our way . tell me the AP wouldnt jump on a recall story fast as flys to manure.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Cpsc

    I am not sure who is dictating strategy for this but let me lend some advice to hopefully someone who is involved in this. The PGI, and everyone involved is getting sucked in to playing this game with the CPSC and this is exactly what they want. The CPSC would love to have this whole thing go the traditional way through the court system. But I can tell you playing it their way is not in my opinion the most effective manner. They currently are attacking where they feel financially it makes sense. They know currently it may not hold legal water so to speak but they also know it will strain the finances and fortitude of all involved. Why not fight fire with fire. Attack the fiscal budget of the CPSC's fireworks division. They only are allocated so much money per year in that department this I am very much sure of. Then why not structure the counter attack at taking away their available funds. One way cheaper than the proposed $100 each would be for everyone in their own area to file a claim against them in small claims court. Wow, I can see it now 3, 4 even 500 separate small claims court sessions that they have to try and send attorney's to all within the same month and all over the country. If they don't show up then the judgment will be automatically awarded to the petitioner. So either way it will cost them thousands for each court date to send an attorney or it will cost them thousands again if they don't show. I guarantee this would strain that CPSC divisionís budget and drain a nice share of their extra funds for further disruption to the fireworks industry. You may think this is far fetched but when doing battle the last thing you want to do is fight the fight the way your adversary wants you to. I feel a surprise attack from every fireworks enthusiast across the country and in the industry is exactly what those sociopaths at the CPSC need. It is time to let them know who they work for and why they exist. Someone in the CPSC is a little to comfortable using his or her power and it is now crossed the line where they think it is ok to hurt US citizens in order to help US citizens. Well how in the hell do you choose which citizens to hurt and which citizens to help. I think the decision maker(s) at the CPSC should look at his or her $200.00 pen being used for writing these policies and realize that it too is an instriment that can be used to hurt people if improperly used. They have made their choice and now it is time for all of us to make ours.

  15. #15
    Member Array Don F's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cpsc

    Climber
    while I do like the way you think , I also forsee a can of worms.
    Until all the terrorist fear mongering the CPSC didnt have the balls to go after chemicals. With all the BS homeland fear feeding propaganda they can do so and claim its for the safety of the nation , preventing terrorists from getting bomb making supplies . with the current mind set of most simple minded people fireworks hobbiests are nothing more than mad bombers in training.
    Back to your idea what to you propose these cases be filed on ?
    How many really want an irs audit ? Or there property searched for bomb making supplies?
    Possibly file on the grounds of the visco limit creating a danger ?? after all not everyone can make a 25 yard dash in 3 seconds. an agency set up to protect us limiting the safety and creating a hazard

  16. #16

    Default Re: Cpsc

    Small Claims are very much different then civil actions. Basically you file under any claim you want and the court sets a date. It does not matter what the claim is as long as it relates to fireworks so they know who just hit them. I don't think the IRS is going to chase CPSC tax referrals all over the country for the IRS has a mind of it's own and does not need the CPSC to tell it how to do it's job. In other words someone at the IRS is going to ask themselves why they are wasting a limited budget chasing all these CPSC referrals around. The CPSC is run by normal individuals grouping together in an organized manner to complete various objectives. Our group can be normal individuals grouping together in an organized manner to complete various objectives as well. I know I am a bit of a dreamer but this is what makes my life interesting. My hope is that maybe someone more directly involved might entertain some other ideas on how to fight this that are more unorthodox in nature. Kind of like the militia did in early American history.




    Quote Originally Posted by Don F
    Climber
    while I do like the way you think , I also forsee a can of worms.
    Until all the terrorist fear mongering the CPSC didnt have the balls to go after chemicals. With all the BS homeland fear feeding propaganda they can do so and claim its for the safety of the nation , preventing terrorists from getting bomb making supplies . with the current mind set of most simple minded people fireworks hobbiests are nothing more than mad bombers in training.
    Back to your idea what to you propose these cases be filed on ?
    How many really want an irs audit ? Or there property searched for bomb making supplies?
    Possibly file on the grounds of the visco limit creating a danger ?? after all not everyone can make a 25 yard dash in 3 seconds. an agency set up to protect us limiting the safety and creating a hazard

  17. #17

    Default Re: Cpsc

    Quote Originally Posted by climber
    Small Claims are very much different then civil actions. Basically you file under any claim you want and the court sets a date. It does not matter what the claim is as long as it relates to fireworks so they know who just hit them. I don't think the IRS is going to chase CPSC tax referrals all over the country for the IRS has a mind of it's own and does not need the CPSC to tell it how to do it's job. In other words someone at the IRS is going to ask themselves why they are wasting a limited budget chasing all these CPSC referrals around. The CPSC is run by normal individuals grouping together in an organized manner to complete various objectives. Our group can be normal individuals grouping together in an organized manner to complete various objectives as well. I know I am a bit of a dreamer but this is what makes my life interesting. My hope is that maybe someone more directly involved might entertain some other ideas on how to fight this that are more unorthodox in nature. Kind of like the militia did in early American history.
    Climber, this is one of those ideas that on paper, makes a lot of sense, in reality, another story. I would never underestimate the IRS. I would never underestimate any Govt. agency or anyone one individual that has time, money and people. Time..thats the key, they have all the time in the world. There is no deadline to make. The only way for us to combat this is with money. If every pyro fan/member truly wants to make a statement they should send money. I mentioned this last year, for those who could afford it, 5/10% of the total they spend for fireworks could be donated. Dan's right, Jack kept us informed. For those of you who want to keep up with this or just stay informed, bookmark the sight and keep on top of this, it isn't going to go away. www.fireworksfoundation.org

  18. #18

    Default Re: Cpsc

    Climber It's my understanding that you cannot sue any federal agency in small claims court. Small claims courts are at the bottom of the totem pole, being municipal courts, they have no jurisdiction over the feds. If you want to sue an agency of the federal government you must file your claim with a Federal Court and show 'standing', before they will formaly accept the case. The 'standing' means that you have actually been harmed in some way, not simply the anticipation of harm because something will be taken away by regulation. Correct me if I'm wrong on that....I have another take on how this should be fought. We effectively have a federal agency, led by a commission of unelected persons, controlling matters of interstate commerce based on regulations they have formed in comittee, rather than statutes created by congress. To my way of thinking, this is a basic constitutional issue.

  19. #19
    pyro_casper_sgv
    Guest

    Default Re: Cpsc

    just be cool everyone.
    Last edited by pyro_casper_sgv; June 28th, 2006 at 04:59 AM.

  20. #20
    Awesome Pyro Guy Array Big No No's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cpsc

    Quote Originally Posted by climber
    I am not sure who is dictating strategy for this but let me lend some advice to hopefully someone who is involved in this. The PGI, and everyone involved is getting sucked in to playing this game with the CPSC and this is exactly what they want. The CPSC would love to have this whole thing go the traditional way through the court system. But I can tell you playing it their way is not in my opinion the most effective manner. They currently are attacking where they feel financially it makes sense. They know currently it may not hold legal water so to speak but they also know it will strain the finances and fortitude of all involved. Why not fight fire with fire. Attack the fiscal budget of the CPSC's fireworks division. They only are allocated so much money per year in that department this I am very much sure of. Then why not structure the counter attack at taking away their available funds. One way cheaper than the proposed $100 each would be for everyone in their own area to file a claim against them in small claims court. Wow, I can see it now 3, 4 even 500 separate small claims court sessions that they have to try and send attorney's to all within the same month and all over the country. If they don't show up then the judgment will be automatically awarded to the petitioner. So either way it will cost them thousands for each court date to send an attorney or it will cost them thousands again if they don't show. I guarantee this would strain that CPSC divisionís budget and drain a nice share of their extra funds for further disruption to the fireworks industry. You may think this is far fetched but when doing battle the last thing you want to do is fight the fight the way your adversary wants you to. I feel a surprise attack from every fireworks enthusiast across the country and in the industry is exactly what those sociopaths at the CPSC need. It is time to let them know who they work for and why they exist. Someone in the CPSC is a little to comfortable using his or her power and it is now crossed the line where they think it is ok to hurt US citizens in order to help US citizens. Well how in the hell do you choose which citizens to hurt and which citizens to help. I think the decision maker(s) at the CPSC should look at his or her $200.00 pen being used for writing these policies and realize that it too is an instriment that can be used to hurt people if improperly used. They have made their choice and now it is time for all of us to make ours.
    Going to court makes me want to .It was easier to send the foundation 50 bucks.Leave the courtroom battles up to the lawyers.
    Bitch I'm Fabulous

  21. #21

    Default Re: Cpsc

    just my 2 sense
    on the owner of pyrotec. he was very shady i lived not to far from his business growing up. i actually purchased afew things from him not going to say what or when but he had me meet him at a truck stop. not sure why just said he did not want to ship it. it was nothing illeagl either justsome tubes no chemicals or anything. i however do know people that purchased chemicals from him not going to say what once again. and he asked them to meet him places becuase he did not want to ship. the cpsc did ally pyros a favor by busting this guy he was giving every one a bad name. and possibly putting peoples lives in danger. know dont think im on there side somethings they do are good in this case i think they did a great job.

  22. #22
    Member Array countryboy7978's Avatar
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    Default CPSC update

    I pulled this off of rec.pyro, but since nobody posted anything about it I figured I would give it a shot.

    This message is posted from Tom Handle regarding the
    status of the CPSC litigation against Firefox. - Dave
    ---

    In the Firefox/CPSC case, on December 6, 2006, the judge issued
    a ruling. The judge directed both parties to negotiate a mutually
    acceptable plan for enforcement of the regulations and applicable
    law which CPSC has authority to enforce.


    What that means is that CPSC and Firefox must reach an
    agreement on which chemicals and supplies are to be limited
    in sales to non-ATF license holders, and what quantities will be
    allowed to each purchaser.


    The judge set a deadline of January 15, 2007 to present the
    agreed-upon compromise to him. It is possible that this deadline
    could be extended an additional 30 to 90 days if need be.


    The judge indicated that he does not want to see Firefox forced
    out of business. The judge has instructed both the government
    and Firefox that if they fail to reach an agreement, he will make
    the decision. The judge has stated explicitly that it is in the
    parties' best interests to reach a compromise agreement --
    meaning that it is in both parties' mutual interests for them to
    decide what to do rather than the judge.


    What does this mean for our hobby?


    1) Whatever we get, it will almost certainly be better than what
    the CPSC wanted, but less than what Firefox would want. Given
    that the judge has indicated his willingness to consider lesser
    restrictions than CPSC desired to impose, we are hopeful. But
    it is too soon to know the final outcome. And there is a very real
    possibility of further expensive and time-consuming legal action.
    In the short-term, we must prepare thoroughly for the upcoming
    negotiations, including creative approaches that might satisfy
    CPSC's desire to ensure that pyrotechnic materials are only used
    in an acceptable manner.


    2) The fireworks hobby community will have input, either via
    negotiations with CPSC or via submission to the judge, in the
    final outcome.


    3) If a mutually acceptable negotiation is reached, our hobby will
    continue. But, whether a negotiated settlement is reached or the
    judge himself decides, it is inevitable that quantities of some
    chemicals available to non-ATF licensed buyers will be reduced.


    What do we need to do next?


    1) The case is not over. We still have huge expenses ahead as
    we enter into negotiations. Please make a contribution to the
    Fireworks Foundation. We do not want to falter now that we are
    entering the home stretch. We absolutely need more funding.


    2) If you know federally elected or appointed officials with
    potential influence at or upon CPSC, please contact John
    Steinberg, Tom Handel, or Harry Gilliam immediately.
    Contact information below.


    3) Please join the Fireworks Alliance if you have not already done
    so. This will be the basis of our future efforts as we continue our
    long range goals of working to develop a better regulatory climate
    for our hobby. Go to http://www.fireworksalliance.com and sign up
    there. It's free.


    The PGI Board of Directors, the Board of the Fireworks Alliance,
    and the Trustees of the Fireworks Foundation want to thank
    each and every one of you who has contributed time, money
    or effort to this matter so far. You have made it possible for
    the Firefox case to get this far. Although the case is not over
    yet, and there is still much legal work to be done on it, we
    want you to know that you have truly made a difference to the
    fireworks hobby. Without the strong showing we made enabled
    by the funding you provided to defend this matter aggressively,
    FireFox would have been compelled to enter into an agreement,
    crafted unilaterally by the CPSC, that would have effectively
    ended their business and quite possibly our hobby years ago.


    Thank you again, and, please, send those checks and PayPal
    donations to the Fireworks Foundation today. After all, couldn't you
    use one more tax deduction in 2006?


    Fireworks Foundation:


    Make your check payable to: "The Fireworks Foundation"


    Mail your checks to:


    Michael Swisher, Treasurer
    The Fireworks Foundation
    14511 Olinda Boulevard, North
    Stillwater, Minnesota 55082


    If you have political contacts, please get in touch with:


    John Steinberg: jrsroc...@aol.com
    Tom Handel: than...@bellatlantic.net
    Harry Gilliam: hegill...@skylighter.com


    Join The Fireworks Alliance. It's free:
    http://www.fireworksalliance.org


    Let's keep out fingers crossed

  23. #23

    Default Re: CPSC update

    Over the years, a lot of pyros have asked," What can I do to stop these laws that keep restricting my hobby?" I believe the answer can be found in Tom's post: donate to the Fireworks Foundation. We have an excellent chance to see a favorable outcome in the Firefox/CPSC case. All we have to do is write a check, no matter how small. It's tax deductible and sure as heck supports a worth cause. So get out that checkbook and start writing!

    Jack

  24. #24
    Member Array Dan's Avatar
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    Default Re: CPSC update

    I agree with Countryboy and Jack, and I know I as well as many of you have followed this "CPSC NIGHTMARE" from it's inception. I recently received my new PGI bulletin and it has an excellent, informative article called "Taking on the Hill" written by Tom Handel, the PGI 1st Vice Pres. I won't post it all here, but will just give you his last paragraph. Read it, and let it sink in nice and DEEP. If we want to continue to enjoy our hobby as it now stands, dig into your pockets and give a little.

    "Our next project is to creat a Political Action Committee (PAC). When this is accomplished, we are going to ask you to donate even more. If we do not prevail in our struggle to maintain access to the supplies we need, if we do not prevail in this regulatory dispute, within a VERY FEW YEARS, the hobby You once knew, as you once knew it, will be irretrievably gone! We ask EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU to write at least one letter, constituent or not, to each official we contacted. We ask each and every one of you, as soon as it is available, to donate $1000.00 to our PAC, whether as a lump sum or through a monthly pledge. Utilize the Alliance. Give to the Foundation. Suppor the PGI and find new members to join us. HELP US HELP YOU. PLEASE."

    I don't think I need to say anymore than what Tom just did.

    Dan
    VICTORY FIREWORKS and HALE'S---Best fireworks at the best prices! period.
    Type 54 1.3g permit holder
    Indoor/proximate certified
    Member PGI
    Pyroreview Administrator

  25. #25

    Default Re: CPSC update

    OK, Guys!

    We know what's it's gonna take to keep our hobby alive and growing: donations to the Fireworks Foundation. So let's write those checks and encourage others to do the same. I will send another $10 this evening. Will anyone join me?

    Jack

  26. #26
    Moderator Array yeagerb's Avatar
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    Default Re: CPSC update

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    I agree with Countryboy and Jack, and I know I as well as many of you have followed this "CPSC NIGHTMARE" from it's inception. I recently received my new PGI bulletin and it has an excellent, informative article called "Taking on the Hill" written by Tom Handel, the PGI 1st Vice Pres. I won't post it all here, but will just give you his last paragraph. Read it, and let it sink in nice and DEEP. If we want to continue to enjoy our hobby as it now stands, dig into your pockets and give a little.

    "Our next project is to creat a Political Action Committee (PAC). When this is accomplished, we are going to ask you to donate even more. If we do not prevail in our struggle to maintain access to the supplies we need, if we do not prevail in this regulatory dispute, within a VERY FEW YEARS, the hobby You once knew, as you once knew it, will be irretrievably gone! We ask EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU to write at least one letter, constituent or not, to each official we contacted. We ask each and every one of you, as soon as it is available, to donate $1000.00 to our PAC, whether as a lump sum or through a monthly pledge. Utilize the Alliance. Give to the Foundation. Suppor the PGI and find new members to join us. HELP US HELP YOU. PLEASE."

    I don't think I need to say anymore than what Tom just did.

    Dan
    Dan,

    Thanks for posting - looks like our hobby is finally doing what it takes - buy off our legislators...legally! A government of the people, by the people and for the allmighty dollar! Wouldn't it be refreshing if the PAC told the legislators that if they didn't start voting for REAL pyro laws that made sense that they would ensure the legislators were voted out of office from a grass roots effort? No dollars required! OOops - there I go dreaming again...

    Thanks again for posting....
    BATFE FEL Permittee
    IL & MO Lead Operator
    Voting Member, NFPA
    PGI Member
    CDL Class C License w/Hazmat Endorsement & J-10 Restriction
    BHFPD Firefighter & Illinois First Responder Defibrillator

  27. #27
    Member Array Dan's Avatar
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    Default Re: CPSC update

    I sent my $50 last night as well. I am going to send $50 quarterly.

    Dan
    VICTORY FIREWORKS and HALE'S---Best fireworks at the best prices! period.
    Type 54 1.3g permit holder
    Indoor/proximate certified
    Member PGI
    Pyroreview Administrator

  28. #28
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    Default Re: CPSC update

    I'm considering a $100 Christmas donation... wish me luck in saving up for it

  29. #29

    Default Re: CPSC update

    You guys make me look like a cheapskate. My check was only for $10. Guess I had better send in another one!

    Let's show the CPSC that we mean business.

    Jack

  30. #30
    Subforum Moderator Array RPS's Avatar
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    Default Re: CPSC update

    I'll send some once I get my next paycheck, I'm a bit low now...

    It's great that people are making this happen and I didn't expect us to do even this well against the CPSC, so it's good to hear!
    Acting President of Northwest Pyrotechnics Association: http://npaclub.org/
    New host for my blog: http://rpspyro.blogspot.com/

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