Excaliburs compared to 9 shot 3" Racks

[sgreen3827]

I have read a ton of great things on these boards about Excaliburs but have never actually seen these shells in person, how do they compare to the 9 shot 3" racks in terms of lift, size of break etc... I am debating between picking up a few cases of 9 shot boards with my order or buying Excals and making my own HDPE racks. Last year I had a few of the Brothers 9 shots and everyone at my party went nuts over them. The wholesale distributor I buy from sell the Brothers 9 shots for just under $80 a case...they don't sell Excals but a retailer near me sells them for $60 a box and even at retail the excals are much cheaper per shot. Thanks in advance for any opinions/insight.

[Supdawg]

There's really no comparison. All Noabs are better than Excals. Not really sure why...

[Tennespeedy]

There's really no comparison. All Noabs are better than Excals. Not really sure why...

Myself, I wouldn't say ALL. I've shot some pretty weak ones. The biggest thing about the Excals is that even though they sound AWESOME, more times than not they have wopsided breaks. It's really annoying. Your money is best spent getting some big breaking 12 shot 500G cakes in place of most of the the NOABS. Personally I wouldn't spend my money on them, but alot of folks do. Post where you're buying and what brands you have access to and the guys can give you their picks.

[Italteen3]

Myself, I wouldn't say ALL. I've shot some pretty weak ones. The biggest thing about the Excals is that even though they sound AWESOME, more times than not they have wopsided breaks. It's really annoying. Your money is best spent getting some big breaking 12 shot 500G cakes in place of the NOABS. Personally I wouldn't spend my money on them, but alot of folks do. Post where you're buying and what brands you have access to and the guys can give you their picks.

If you are spending thousands of dollars on the 4th I don't see the big difference in getting a few less shots that are definitely bigger then anything else out there. They most definitely have their place in a show. IMO noab's provide a good balance to any show. It's like a 1.3 show when 12" shells are shot. Not many are but when they are, everyone ooooooo's and aaaaaaaaaa's.

Best I've seen are the Golden Bear racks and Dominator racks.

[zombie93]

I got "One big S.O.B. and the "One Bad Mother" 9 shot racks. They both looked really good. I just have one question: What does NOAB stand for?

[Tennespeedy]

I just have one question: What does NOAB stand for?

Nipple On A Biscuit

[RPS]

If you really want those big breaks, maybe get 4 NOABs (two cases), but it seems hard to justify anything more. $50+ (Victory C pricing) per case is 18 shots, or $2.77/shot. Excals from Victory are $138/case, or $0.96/shot. The good ones certainly are bigger, but buying anything more than a couple just seems like a huge waste to me. Yeah, they are nice (the good ones at least), but they are very expensive.

The breaks are nice and round (at least the ones I've seen), but like Tennespeedy said, you can get the same effect from good 500g or good ball shells. If I was spending over $1500 (and maybe you are), I might be able to justify NOABs, otherwise I'd stick to shells and 500g.

edit: I'd say get Quake, packed 4/1 and still only $53 (victory C). Looks great and much cheaper because it doesn't have as much fancy packaging.

[Deweycoon]

Yep, no real comparison between the sloppy oblong breaks of an Excal shell and a nice round break of the 9 shots.
If you want the best bang for the buck go with 12 shot cakes like someone already mentioned.

[St1dinoh]

Nipple On A Biscuit

well congratulations...you made me literally laugh out loud.

haven't done that reading forums in a whiel, despite my frequent use of the term "LOL"

[pyroesq]

I got "One big S.O.B. and the "One Bad Mother" 9 shot racks. They both looked really good. I just have one question: What does NOAB stand for?
Nine on a Board

[Mean Old Man]

With 3" racks, you are likely going to get BIGGER breaks that will have more 'ooohhh' factor. With excals, you are going to get LOUD breaks that are nice, but not spherical and not as big as the quality NOAB breaks.

I also agree with something Speedy alluded to. IMO, a good 12 shot 500g cake is a better value for the money (if better value is what you're looking for). And IMO many of these cakes actually outperform the 3" NOABS because the pace is better. And many of them have very nice, large, and professional looking breaks.

Another alternative is 3" single shot tubes. These are probably more expensive per shot than NOABS (maybe) but you can control the pace of the shots and actually time the bigger breaks to burst when you want. And I think the 'ooohhh' factor is increased when a big break occurs at just the right moment during the display.

[Mean Old Man]

Nipple On A Biscuit

LOL, can you get those at Hardees?

[leeca]

The 3"-9 have great shape, but since I joined WPA and can just buy a case of real 72 ea 3" shells for about $125.00 I can't see spending a dime on any NOABs. If that was not an option for me I might consider getting some for the finale.

Real 3" shells blow away the so called 3"-9s

I do have to admit that when we have out 1.3G only shoots, it's the 3"-9s and Big Zipper cakes like United Pyro Platinum Pro Series that seem to draw the most attention. That and the mine cakes shot in groups like Beyond Reality.

Excaliburs are a better value, but due to being canister shells they can have sloppy breaks that you will not see from a NOAB.

[Tennespeedy]

LOL, can you get those at Hardees?

Yes but not the true 3" ones, they're just 1.75" They just look like 3" because they're in a 3" buscuit ;)

[danmagicman]

High quality ball shells have some nice effects and very spherical breaks.

Side by side might yield different results, but much of the time ball shells will do the trick, especially fired pretty quickly.

However, with some GOOD effect NOAB's (only a select few qualify in my book), you have the ability to slow down your show and showcase those effects. This makes your show look more professional. When you slow down your show, people concentrate more on the effects and quality of each shot. In this case, good NOAB's do their job and do it well.

Personally, I think if you throw up NOAB's during a finale or with lots of other cakes it really is a waste. At that point, delicate effects and symmetry don't matter. Once you have lots of things up in the air at a time, its about color, sky coverage, tempo, and effect/color themes. NOAB's just don't fit that formula.

So really, it's almost comparing apples to oranges.

Shells are really meant for more rapid firing and can easily be modified for sky coverage and are the best thing to use to create or enhance themes in your show.

NOAB's are all about showcasing symmetrical breaks and getting people to notice effects and how nice the breaks themselves actually are.

Combining these two effectively will get you a professional looking consumer show.

[pyro29]

I'm with Dan 110%, nicely said...

[macktruk45]

It is definitely more economical to go with high end shells and high performance 500 Gram cakes than to go with the Nine on a Boards.
For the exact same reason that Dan has mentioned.
I think it is funny when people think it is all about bigger being better. It was funny that last year the thing that people picked out as one of the most enjoyable things in the show was not the biggest break, not the loudest break, not the most colorful break, not the coolest break, but they chose the spinners that are in the one series of Wild West. They thought that was a nice effect.
People that watch your show are more in tune with different things that you might think. They want interesting, they want new, they wand variety. If they want to see the large breaks, they would go somewhere else on the 4th to see the professional shells.
Yet every year, there are those folks that come to your barbecue and wait all night until it gets dark enough to shoot, just to see you (their friend) light of fireworks, that they know are smaller than the pros, but they can be close to, see before hand, think about before hand, and see interesting effects that they do not see in the larger shows.
It is about the closeness to the shooter, the newness of the effects, and the intrinsically endless possibilities that come with consumer fireworks. Sometimes they like that nice symmetrical break, and other times they love to see that crazy sky covering oblong blast of color combined with other effect mixed in with it.
There is a lot more intimacy in the 1.4 g shows than in the 1.3g shows. This is why they come. They don't come to see a miniature 1.3g show.

[Fireworkslvr]

well congratulations...you made me literally laugh out loud.

haven't done that reading forums in a whiel, despite my frequent use of the term "LOL"

Agreed! :lol:


BTW, NOAB really stands for "Nine On A Board" ;)

[SmallvilleKs]

The slower pacing of NOABS matters less when you're firing multiples at one time. I shot four at the end of a show a couple weeks ago and the breaks are constant for the duration. No dead sky that you typically get when you fire one alone. It was a loud, big, intense finale. You can get close with the 12 shot 500g, but if you've got good NOABS you can't beat it. It's more expensive but it's all in what you want. I've done finales with both and 4 NOABS fired at once are hard to beat. (I used Dominator 3", for reference purposes).

[cexshun]

Personally, I'm not a big NOAB fan. I like more action and a quicker pace to my shows. The whole "crack....BOOM" pause pause pause pause "crack...BOOM" doesn't fit into the way I like to do my shows.

If I feel that it's necessary, I'll pick up the 2" instead of the 3", but most of the time I'll just go with a nice 500g repeater instead.

So, if given the choice, I'd take reloadable shells everyday over a NOAB because I can rack them and set my own pace.

[FireDzine]

Personally, I like Smoke-N-Mirrors much better than Excalibur.

[St1dinoh]

the real trick is finding the ever ellusive 9 shot 500 gram cakes that come packed 4/1

they are out there, and they are usually quite nice.

no cost for the fancy wood base and the art work on the individual tubes...

just a standard 500 gram 9 shot cake in a box.

like buckeyes best/walloping wolvorines...someone should start a thread.

[jcell26]

the real trick is finding the ever ellusive 9 shot 500 gram cakes that come packed 4/1

they are out there, and they are usually quite nice.

no cost for the fancy wood base and the art work on the individual tubes...

just a standard 500 gram 9 shot cake in a box.

like buckeyes best/walloping wolvorines...someone should start a thread.

Good call here. Quake is awesome as is a new cake by Firehawk, Sounds Like a Winner. Both 9 shot, 4 to a case. Firehawk also makes Gone Wild, another 9 shot, packed 2 to a case that sells for about $26.00 per case wholesale.

[jeff wilson]

the real trick is finding the ever ellusive 9 shot 500 gram cakes that come packed 4/1

they are out there, and they are usually quite nice.

no cost for the fancy wood base and the art work on the individual tubes...

just a standard 500 gram 9 shot cake in a box.

like buckeyes best/walloping wolvorines...someone should start a thread.


Jakes has a nice looking one.
http://poorpaulsfireworks.net/images/sexyrider.gif

The effects sound nice too.

[St1dinoh]

Good call here. Quake is awesome as is a new cake by Firehawk, Sounds Like a Winner. Both 9 shot, 4 to a case. Firehawk also makes Gone Wild, another 9 shot, packed 2 to a case that sells for about $26.00 per case wholesale.


Jakes has a nice looking one.
http://poorpaulsfireworks.net/images/sexyrider.gif

The effects sound nice too.

about 3 years ago there was a cake, with a tan wrapper, and a big (and rather detailed) photo of a basketball imposed on the label.

i don't remember the name of the cake or who made it, but it was very nice. 9 shots and very heavy.

does this vauge description ring a bell for anyone...it was a basketball themed label and a tanish background...

possibly either brothers, forward, asia pyro, WC, or boomer judging by what the store carried.

[SkycandyJim]

I have yet to chime in this season on any topic but I do have to say this here and now. The following are all statements of fact, not opinion.

CPSC regulations state that the maximum size of Class C product is 1.75 inches. ALL of the so called 3" product is cleaverly manufactured 1.75 inch shells and NO MORE.

500 grams is the maximun allowed load in Class C. 60 grams per shot maximum (correct me if I'm wrong); 500 divided by 9 = 55+ per shot.
Any reloadable shell can have 60g per shot max. So what is the difference?

Almost all of the suppliers have reserved specific effects for their 3" product to make it seem unique, but it is still 1.75.

Anyone who thinks that buying 9 shots of 1.75 is better than a kit of 24 has trouble with their priorities, UNLESS they are looking for the specific effects that a particular 3" may have, because there is absolutely no comparison in price. The 3" are exponentionaly more expensive per shot.

Now my opinion.
Having seen several dozen different 3" consumer cakes, I will never try to argue that regular shells are better, only the arguement that you get much more for your money on the, lets say Excals, than two 3" NOABs, when it comes to cost per shot. 1 kit of Excals is roughly the same cost as one NOAB.

IMHO, not much in the consumer line comes close to the break size of a World Class Big Dog, and I shoot them with the BIG PACKAGE brocade break to give an awesum effect, so I agree that they do have their place. But it is a difficult choice to say that one Big Dog is better than 2 Big Package 500g's

If I can offer this advice, if you have a really big show planned, than one or a few of the 3" can offer a different look, but the normal backyard shooter might be better off with the extra product and staying with more 500s or shells.

The mentioning of Sexy Rider is a great example of a 500g cake that will perform as well as most 3"; the colors are great, the breaks are great and you get almost 3 to one on shots per dollar.

My 2 cents.

[BigDave]

CPSC regulations state that the maximum size of Class C product is 1.75 inches. ALL of the so called 3" product is cleaverly manufactured 1.75 inch shells and NO MORE.


I agree with everything you said, with one caviat:

1.75" is the max for reloadable morters.

Single use devices can be a bit bigger, I think 2" but not sure.

The difference you get is that a 2" round shell can make a more symetrical break, and if they use top line construction, stars and break compound they can make a better effect, but the fake 3" double shell or double tube stuff is a total wallet dig.

[kgb]

I agree with everything you said, with one caviat:

1.75" is the max for reloadable morters.

Yep,the 1.75" diameter rule is for reloadable shells only.The preloaded stuff has to follow the 60g of comp limit but not the 1.75".

That's why the biggest breaks in 1.4g come from cakes and preloaded tubes.

If anyone wants to dispute this go to the CPSC website and look it up.I did.;)

[striker4015]

I fired my first excal the other day. Nice shell but not impressed.

Is the Excal considered the the closest you can get to a 1.3g shell in a 1.4g firework?

Just curious. I have no desire to mess with 1.3g. I know my limits.

[rwhip76]

Anyone who thinks that buying 9 shots of 1.75 is better than a kit of 24 has trouble with their priorities, UNLESS they are looking for the specific effects that a particular 3" may have, because there is absolutely no comparison in price. The 3" are exponentionaly more expensive per shot.

Serious question here...not trying to be smarmy. Why then do breaks on NOABs seem more impressive than any 1.75" reloadable? Make Glory Honor Power type breaks with reloadables, and we'll finally have an end to the "the new Excal" argument.

[BigDave]

Serious question here...not trying to be smarmy. Why then do breaks on NOABs seem more impressive than any 1.75" reloadable? Make Glory Honor Power type breaks with reloadables, and we'll finally have an end to the "the new Excal" argument.

Because they spend the money to use the best construction and best materials, and they max out the amount lifted into the air in a round shell built to burst round.

Cylinders can't pack the walls carefully to maintain shape like a round shell can, and you can't always buy the best materials, or craftsmen to built a maximum load shell that costs 40 to 95 cents wholesale.

Still, anything above twice what other cakes cost is obviously excessive, but those that want it will pay for it.

"Maximum load" is such a slippery term too, most shells claiming that only have the maximum 15 grams burst charge, heck the only shell thats heavy enough to even use a full 10 gram lift charge is excals(and they weigh the shell down heavily with clay to be able to make that claim for real), so the term is somewhat discounted.

I'd be happier if they said something like "Maximum load 15 grams burst and 35 grams pyrotechnic material per aerial shell".

[RPS]

I wish the reloadable diameter was 2", even if 60g was stil the max. We could get some great ball shells that way, with more comp and better symmetry. I wonder how much comp can actually fit in a 1.75" ball shell anyway?

[Deweycoon]

You can only put 50 grs of comp in a ball shell. 50 grs will fit very easy in a 1.75 ball shell.

[nispela]

So many things to consider...yes excals have some of the most satisfying lift "whumpfs" around and decent, if not symmetrical breaks, but IMO some of the packaged 9 and 12-shot cakes are as good or better. I have excals, black mambas (yeah I know this year they might suck mightily), and Glory Honor Power along with PPS-7, but I also have New Dimension which is one of the best 12-shots I've run across, Engine No. 9, and Quake, to name just a few of the 50+ cases I'll be shooting this year. As said in earlier posts, these items all have their place in a show. I say enjoy them all!

[UnkleSAM]

So really what you're all saying is that there is a need for a very high-quality reloadable ball shell. Something that will give the lift and break of an Excal, good color, and the symmetry we expect from a ball shell.

Getting the greatest lift is not a problem. Just design a good shell/tube combo, and max the lift charge. If course, that means the shell will go high - really high - so high you will say WOW! Until the shell breaks that is, then you'll say "but it has a puny break". In reality it won't be puny, it will just be... far away.

So... the break will have to be powerful. This means either max powder, better powder (yeah, life they won't inspect the hell out of that), or a stronger shell casing. Max powder fills the shell, and leaves less comp limit and space for stars. Not good. A strong casing needs to be thicker. Again, less room for stars. Unless, it uses better technology like fiberglass, carbon fiber, or epoxy-resin coating. These are expensive.

This leads us to the stars. They need to be of very high quality. They need to burn longer and brighter than what we usually get in our kits. That means expense. It also means a lot of you complaining "but there isn't much variety". And we can't forget that it's harder to fill a ball to the brim than it is a canister. With all the improvements to this shell, we certainly want to use every gram of comp we're allowed.

The root of the problem, of course is that a 1.75" ball has much less volume than a 1.75" canister. So in order to up it's performance, it needs to be a very top-end product. That costs money - lots of it. How many of us would buy a ball kit that costs half-again-plus more than Excals, even if the break was nicer? Would it be enough to justify making it?

And then we'd want it in bulk.

[r1dermon]

its not possible. if there was a ball shell with equal lift and break as an excal, it would HAVE to be 1.3 or else it would be using flash or whistle mix or some other high powered low explosive to break the shell. which would mean less break charge would be required, which would in turn mean more comp could be added. which is why a 2" 1.3g shell is WAY better looking than anything 1.4g.

if im going for effects alone, symmetrical breaks...etc...im going to hit up some of the NOABs out there, because they're a LOT bigger than excals break-wise. and cakes like matrix pyro, and black-cat willows that really showcase the effect. excals to me are great to mess around with, to light off individually before a show to get some excitement going...or to absolutely puke the sky with...other than that, the willow and the crackle are to me, the only two excal shells which have good quality effects.

also, dont forget, the shells inside a NOAB are 2" and wrapped up heavily for a stronger break. a 2" ball shell will give an excal a run for its money. and if we had 2" reloadable ball shells in 1.4, you can bet the excal would be obsolete.

[PhandemoniumMike]

I might be having a blonde joke moment here (i used to have blonde last year ha ha!) but when we talk about single shot tubes and it says on the tube packaging #300, #400, #500 does this mean that there is 300, 400, 500 grams of powder in those? Or is it more of a "category" or a marketing plow to make you think it is INDEED that POWERFUL so that we all go and buy them? I have a sneaky suspision that there really isn't 500 grams of powder in a #500 gram tube from reading this thread. haha..

[Fireworkslvr]

I might be having a blonde joke moment here (i used to have blonde last year ha ha!) but when we talk about single shot tubes and it says on the tube packaging #300, #400, #500 does this mean that there is 300, 400, 500 grams of powder in those? Or is it more of a "category" or a marketing plow to make you think it is INDEED that POWERFUL so that we all go and buy them? I have a sneaky suspision that there really isn't 500 grams of powder in a #500 gram tube from reading this thread. haha..

I'm not exactly sure if you are joking about this question or not, but the number on the tube does not mean the amount of powder in that tube. Think about the large tubes (the ones with multiple shots) that have #700, #900, and #1000 on them. The legal limit is 500 grams so obviously these tubes cannot have that much powder. I saw a video on you tube of a guy going through his Fourth of July inventory, and he had a few of the #900 tubes from Phantom, and he was getting real excited because he thought that there was 900 grams of powder in there.

BTW, here is an example of a shell (1.3g) that has about just over 500 grams of powder in it.

http://www.pyroreview.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/9119/sort/1/cat/612/page/1

As you can see these are definately not 1.4g consumer shells.

[BigDave]

Pure marketing.

They have the same 60 gram total split in the same amount limits that any arial firework has.
The numbers are all made up and don't always match between diff companies.

Thye can be a larger round ball though so the best ones are better then the best reloadables, but it's hard to sort out the chaff that is the same as a reloadable just preloaded in a tube.

[wrtiii]

Yep,the 1.75" diameter rule is for reloadable shells only.The preloaded stuff has to follow the 60g of comp limit but not the 1.75".

That's why the biggest breaks in 1.4g come from cakes and preloaded tubes.

If anyone wants to dispute this go to the CPSC website and look it up.I did.;)

The CPSC regulation specifies 1.75" maximum size for a reloadable. That's a US regulation.

However, consumer fireworks also need to meet the UN/DOT shipping regulations to be classified 1.4G. These specify for preloaded devices a maximum size of 50 mm (= 1.96"), a maximum of 60g pyrotechnic composition, and <= 25% flash composition as loose powder and/or report effects.

Obviously, anything sold has to meet the most restrictive regulations.

[PhandemoniumMike]

Oh, by no means am I joking, I was pretty sure that #500 tubes don't actually mean that it has 500 grams of powder in it. To me, a #500 tube "seems" like it has more gram for gram of powder in it than say one tube of Space Destroyer (i so wanted that mo fo). They seem bigger and more symmetrical than any cake's break.

As bigdave said its just a marketing gimmick. They want you to think they are packed to the brim with lots and lots of yummy powder.

Mmm, fireworks. The late night snack of champions!

[MagicMan]

Anyone in PA, besides Skyking, sell the excals?

[shortfusejay]

Murph does= http://www.glittermountain.com/

[MagicMan]

Murph does= http://www.glittermountain.com/

Not driving 5 hrs each way

[UnkleSAM]

NorthEast has Excals.

[macktruk45]

Fireworks by Donnora sells Excal's

[Blkhayes]

IMO. The excals would be nice in a finale. I plan to use 1 50 shot box. 1 36 shot box and 2 20 shot boxes of Excals as part of my finale. With their great lift and break charge they are made for the finale. We all know that finales are loud and intense and this many Excals going up quick-fused along with some special cakes would be a great finale.

I personally enjoy the NOABs. I have four different kinds for my show this year. Compared to some 12 shot cakes the NOABs seem to have a more complete symmetrical break for some reason. It may be because they may have more or bigger stars in there shells or better construction. If you look at the vids carefully those NOABs seem to have more of a tighter break than those of the 12 shot cakes. Dont get me wrong, they are both symmetrical, but it just seems that the 9 shots have a more fuller tight-rounded break. As far as certain effects go.