build a better poor mans rack? [Archive]

St1dinoh

January 16th, 2006, 10:34 AM

ok so i have a delima. i have these cardboard tubes and i'd like to use them but i don't like the space they take up once constructed. the only one i have now is basicly 12 B.A.R. tubes in a line (screwed to a 2x4) with 2 sides screwed on to the end of the board to stabalize the rack. so basicly, as you might imagine, its akward to store. and i've already broke one of the tubes off it's base....which is what leads me to my question.....

i'm holding onto this baseless tube thinking "hey this could go in a HDPE rack". so what if i were to bust off the bases on all my tubes? well i don't want to attempt that. i got lucky with this one tube as it has a perfect break. looks almost cut out. so i have this idea to take a roto zip and cut the base off leaving behind the tube with it's slapeled and glued plastic plug, and discarding the left over base. which would give me a tube that would be similar to the HDPE or fiberglass in that they can be mounted next to one another without that big 4 or 5 inch gap in between. unfortunatley there would have to be a small ammount of that base left so the tubes, in theroy, would still need to be 1/2 inch or so apart. therfore i'd need to insert a shim or 2 between each tube in order to secure them. so the typical rack would only be slightly longer than it's HDPE or fiberglass counterpart.

what do you guys think about this idea...has anyone tried this before....what saftey concerns should i keep in mind?

Deweycoon

January 16th, 2006, 11:10 AM

I made a 30 shot rack last year out of cardboard tube using a rotozip to cut the base off.
It worked great and never disturbed the plug. Shim them the same you would an angle rack, make sure to predrill our your little shims will crack.

St1dinoh

January 16th, 2006, 12:26 PM

well i was thinking of constructing them the same way i did my 5 shot racks, with all 5 tubes sitting next to one another in a box. the shims would need to be there due to the gap betwen tubes. so i'd need the shims to fill the gaps up top so the tubes wouldn't move around on me. i'm thinking of making them in 6 shot boxes. that way 2 of these boxes could launch one kit. and each time i pick up a new case of shells i'd get 2 more 6 shot boxes.

basicly it would be like this. make an "L" out of 2x4. attach that to some plywood by laying it down onto it. then place all 6 tubes in a line using one of theoes 2x4's as the base. then attach the 3rd 2x4 to the end and insert shims between all the tubes and the 2x's to wedge them in. then add the other side of ply to sandwich them in semi-tight. i figure i could whip thoes racks out using nothing but scrap and deck screws. cheap, effective, and less akward to use...

but i'm still concerned about the tube saftey.

do thoes cardboard tubes rely on the "spring" that the plastic bases give them to reduce the recoil/pressure on the tube? kinda like bracing your shoulder on a tree and shooting a shotgun....leaves a nice bruise.:D

tn-dave

January 18th, 2006, 06:58 PM

kinda like bracing your shoulder on a tree and shooting a shotgun....leaves a nice bruise.:D

I gotta try to talk somebody into doing that :D

Don F

January 18th, 2006, 09:14 PM

Heck a shot guns not that bad
well unless you grab my red dot topped reloads:twisted:
My 11 year old nephew whined and cried about his shoulder for three days after shooting my 44 rifle :rolleyes: my five year olds shot it many times "daddy this makes big holes in the dirt" was her only comment.

As for standard cardboard tubes I wouldnt trust them with high end shells.
I tried using them once for the notorious excals :lol: and had 50 cardboard ribbons.
I dont think you'll have problems with the plugs the plastic bases arent designed to be mounted solid . So when mounted solid they tend to crack .
I have a poor mans rack but only shoot "glorified festival balls" from them with no ill effects .

Mr.Pyro

January 19th, 2006, 05:29 AM

Yes...by all means do NOT use them to fire off Excal's or Smoke "N" Mirrors.
The tubes would be ok for the peanut shells.

I have reused the tubes in my shows. I just fastened them on to sheets of plywood. But the big difference here was the tubes were sitting out on the boat in the middle of the lake. If any thing was to go wrong..it would be no probleam.

And yes..the tube from the Smoke "N" Mirror kit is indeed cardboard. But we are talking about tubes from various kit's.

wrtiii

January 19th, 2006, 11:07 AM

It seems to me you are going to a lot of work to attempt to reuse something that is designed to be disposable. If you are shooting enough shells to make you want to accumulate racks for them, you might as well start accumulating racks that will stand up over time and that you know will be both safe and effective. The downside of using your cardboard tubes:

Need to inspect your tubes before and after each use Need be careful cleaning them out so you don't damage the cardboard Need to keep the tubes dry, both in use and in storage
Need to be careful what kind of shell you fire from them (they were designed only for the shells they came with)

This seems to be a sub-optimal approach, compared to buying 12 tubes of either fiberglass or HDPE every year and building yourself another couple of racks until you have enough. If you are on this forum you know of at least one source of professional quality tubes at wholesale prices; make use of that!

St1dinoh

January 19th, 2006, 12:55 PM

well to be quite frank with you guys i never intended on using them more than once mabey twice and hucking them in the fire. the work involved is minimal and acceptable VS just not using the tubes at all. no sense in wasting them. but i hate having to string 6 inches of visco between each tube. if i do it this way i can shoot more of them in a shorter period of time. i'd probably just build a 25 shot block and piggyback the whole thing for use in my finale, or mabey for an opener. lil cheap shocker rack. and the best part is it's free!

but yeah about more tubes.....i've got a million bills to pay and somewhere in there is an order for 100 or so tubes.

dfluke

January 19th, 2006, 08:28 PM

We have a place up here in Kansas City that sells HDPE, and around the 4th it's discounted a little bit so a 20' section costs about 10 bucks (two years ago). I'm gonig to drill my own plugs this year, so with a little work and very little expense (about $25.00 total, using scrap wood) I could build a rack and not have to purchase pre-plugged HDPE or fiberglass. Of course, all this costs time, so if $1.50 per fiberglass tube is worth your time, I'd say go for it.

scarp9603

January 22nd, 2006, 12:11 PM

What about cutting round holes in a sheet of plywood, pushing the hdpe and/or fiberglass tubes from your old shell kits up thru the bottom, then screwing the bases to the bottom of the plywood?

Mike

January 22nd, 2006, 12:38 PM

What about cutting round holes in a sheet of plywood, pushing the hdpe and/or fiberglass tubes from your old shell kits up thru the bottom, then screwing the bases to the bottom of the plywood?

I think an easier method would be just to screw the bases directly to the top surface of the wood without any hole cutting. This works just fine. Just trying to save you a lot of needless work. :)

scarp9603

January 22nd, 2006, 12:58 PM

The only reason I was going push the tubes to up thru the bottom of the board, was as a precaution to prevent tipping. The plastic in some of the bases looks like it could be brittle.

Mike

January 22nd, 2006, 01:12 PM

The only reason I was going push the tubes to up thru the bottom of the board, was to prevent tipping over. The plastic in some of the bases looks like it could be brittle.

You are correct. A lot of bases are hollow. If you just carefully "snug" the screws down without cracking the plastic, it should be safe enough as long as people are far enough away in case of a mishap. Just make sure you screw down all 4 corners. This method worked fine for the tubes that came with Smoke N Mirrors, which we trashed afterwards.

However, I will never criticize anyone's extra safety practices. If your method makes you feel more comfortable and more safe, then, by all means, do it. ;)

scarp9603

January 22nd, 2006, 01:23 PM

Does Smoke N Mirrors come with cardboard, hdpe or fiberglass tubes?

Mike

January 22nd, 2006, 01:29 PM

Does Smoke N Mirrors come with paper, hdpe or fiberglass tubes?

They come with cardboard mortars mounted on hollow plastic bases.

Chris

January 22nd, 2006, 02:03 PM

I made my poor man racks by getting a cardboard box and putting the tubes in it the way I wanted them. After this I got some type of expanding foam from Walmart and sprayed it in the box with the tubes to hold the tubes in place. All of the rack I made worked great for last Fourth of July.

noslo98

January 22nd, 2006, 06:43 PM

Here is my poor mans rack i did this weekend.A buddy of mine that has a cabinet shop owed me money so it cost me nothing but 19.00 for the screws,handles and eye bolts.Does that count as a poor mans rack??

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3433/48rackb8ix.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Murph'

January 22nd, 2006, 07:31 PM

Hey, Is that my battery charger? I been looking for that!! :eek:

Here is my poor mans rack i did this weekend.A buddy of mine that has a cabinet shop owed me money so it cost me nothing but 19.00 for the screws,handles and eye bolts.Does that count as a poor mans rack??

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3433/48rackb8ix.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Dan

January 22nd, 2006, 07:40 PM

HOLY CRAP....I take it the eyebolts are for using rebar into the ground to hold the rack. I can tell you with a foot print like that, you ain't ever gonna need the eyebolts

Dan

Chris

January 22nd, 2006, 07:49 PM

Here are pics of my poor man racks...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/fireworkdude2/june82005002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/fireworkdude2/june82005001.jpg

noslo98

January 22nd, 2006, 08:31 PM

HOLY CRAP....I take it the eyebolts are for using rebar into the ground to hold the rack. I can tell you with a foot print like that, you ain't ever gonna need the eyebolts

Dan

LOL..I know huh it was hard enough to tip it over on the table for last min adjustments. I just went ahead and put the eye bolts on it to make the safty team at the organized events happy.

Bayarea510

January 22nd, 2006, 08:41 PM

HOLY CRAP....I take it the eyebolts are for using rebar into the ground to hold the rack. I can tell you with a foot print like that, you ain't ever gonna need the eyebolts

Dan

hahaha dan this is how we do it out on the westcoast man!!!

Bay:twisted:

scarp9603

January 23rd, 2006, 06:25 AM

What's the advantage of 15-inch mortars over 12-inch? Do you have to use 15-inch with the more powerful shells, like Excalibur or Smoke-N-Mirrors?

Deweycoon

January 23rd, 2006, 06:53 AM

What's the advantage of 15-inch mortars over 12-inch? Do you have to use 15-inch with the more powerful shells, like Excalibur or Smoke-N-Mirrors?

15" mortars are mainly needed for the 3,4,5,etc break shells.
Any single break or double break shell will fire just fine out of a 12" mortar.
Some people use 12" mortars on 3 break shells... I have not tried this.

noslo98

January 23rd, 2006, 05:58 PM

I use 12" on tripple breaks it works fine. I have notices little diference between the 12" to the 15" tube size.The only reason i mixed the rack is because that is what i had laying around.

mastersparks

January 23rd, 2006, 06:39 PM

Been told that 15" gives the shot more altitude but have not yet been able to verify that statement.

Nice rack Noslo!

leeca

January 23rd, 2006, 06:52 PM

Here is my poor mans rack i did this weekend.A buddy of mine that has a cabinet shop owed me money so it cost me nothing but 19.00 for the screws,handles and eye bolts.Does that count as a poor mans rack??
I love the rack; I would like to do something like it. I would like to make it adjustable. Kind of a merge of you design and this one..

RPS

January 23rd, 2006, 08:28 PM

Been told that 15" gives the shot more altitude but have not yet been able to verify that statement.

Nice rack Noslo!

I seem to remember somebody testing this and reporting back on the previous incarnation of this forum. If I remember correctly, they tested shells side by side in 12" and 15" with no noticeable difference. It would be sweet if it worked to help spread shells out, but I guess not. Anyone know anything different?

azzip

January 24th, 2006, 12:57 PM

I have 30 shot racks of 12's and about 50 15" fiberglass, there is little difference in altitude (maybe 20 ft at most, I attribute it to a tighter fit with the fiberglass as opposed to length). There is very little spread with either.

ilovefireworks

January 27th, 2006, 02:33 PM

heavy d

January 27th, 2006, 05:11 PM

this is my poor mans rack. I got the tubes from Colin and the milk crate for free. I lined the crate with card board and then filled it with a can of spray foam. without the tubes it cost me like $4.75 for the can of foam.

Mike

January 27th, 2006, 05:35 PM

Nice ideas by the two previous posters! ;)

Deweycoon

January 27th, 2006, 06:10 PM

Most of the wood I used on my 20 and 30 shot racks is free!
I work for a power company...I hook up the power to a new house.. ask "what are going to do with that pile of wood"?? and they give me the scrap for free.
Alot of little pieces is all you need... well and a saw.... well and a little skill.:)

My picture will not load for me so I will give you the link.
http://www.pyroreview.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/3163/sort/2/cat/520/page/1

The wood is not all the same, some is treated lumber, some is old gray wood , it all works.
Ask those contractors, it's not their money being thrown away.... you will find pieces they don't want to mess with.

Mike

January 27th, 2006, 06:15 PM

Very true. All they're going to do is burn it or bury it anyway.

SoonerKid

January 28th, 2006, 07:37 AM

A good source of lumber maybe your local glass company. They ship big sheets of glass on pallets that are 4' x 10'(well they do here anyway).The pallets have allot of usable lumber but thats if you want to have to tear the pallets apart;).

Spyder207

January 28th, 2006, 08:18 AM

scarp9603

February 1st, 2006, 05:11 PM

What kind of mortars do the Excalibur kits come with? HDPE, fiberglass or cardboard?
How tall is the tube? What ID and OD?
How wide of a base, bigger than 6"x6". Is the base Hollow plastic?

St1dinoh

February 1st, 2006, 06:47 PM

HDPE

i believe the tube is a 15 and is SDR-11 HDPE so i think it's a 1.89 id? mabey....not sure but standard sdr-11 HDPE i do believe.

the base is not hollow and is less than 6x6 i think somewhere between 4x4 and 5x5.

dfluke

February 3rd, 2006, 06:56 PM

THe quote wasn't me, but I shot some quad break (not so great) mortars out of 12" tubes and they didn't go very high in the first place. It did make for a pretty good finale.

I seem to remember somebody testing this and reporting back on the previous incarnation of this forum. If I remember correctly, they tested shells side by side in 12" and 15" with no noticeable difference. It would be sweet if it worked to help spread shells out, but I guess not. Anyone know anything different?

Spyder207

February 4th, 2006, 06:02 PM

When using the fiberglass mortars, do you attach them to the base of the rack, or just position them between the boards or foam?

johnny_boomboom

February 4th, 2006, 06:09 PM

207... If you are using foam... just fille the container up... in racks just leave them loose*.... as in can be removed but not able to wiggle around a whole lot...

scarp9603

February 15th, 2006, 06:57 AM

How wide are the bases of the tubes that come with Excalibur shell kits?

I want to make a poor man's rack that uses the HDPE and fiberlass tubes from shell kits. I plan to cut holes in a sheet of plywood and push the tubes up thru the bottom. The biggest bases I have so far are 6-1/4" x 6-1/4". If I can get some Excalibur kits, I want to be able to use those tubes in the poor man's rack also. So I need to know how far apart to cut the holes.

Deweycoon

February 15th, 2006, 10:02 AM

How wide are the bases of the tubes that come with Excalibur shell kits?

The Excal mortar bases I have measure 4 5/8" x 4 5/8".

lwoodpyro

February 16th, 2006, 07:53 PM

delete me

johnny_boomboom

February 19th, 2006, 06:41 AM

Not to start a run or anything... but Office Depot had Milk crates BOGOF....:D :D :D

Supdawg

March 8th, 2006, 03:34 AM

Here is a really poor man's rack. LOL

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/5277/im0009327ec.th.jpg (http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im0009327ec.jpg)http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/4637/dscn1359aa8kj.th.jpg (http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn1359aa8kj.jpg)

Or you can use a sturdy spent cake with proper diameter.

;)

SomeGuy

April 23rd, 2006, 07:27 AM

MNPyro

April 23rd, 2006, 09:22 AM

Do you have to put plugs in each tube or is it ok to just drop a reloadable in & fire?

Can I use the fiberglass tubes Colin sells for just about any size shell?
Do I need to bond the rubes to the base or do I just slide them into the rack?

I'd like to build a mortar rack out of fiberglass tubes or old mortar tubes.

If you dig a little bit, there are tons of pictures of racks using both HDPE and Fiberglass tubes. I think it is "iluvfireworks" who has a "Mortar Rack Hall of Fame" which has a collection of everyones(who posted) rack that they have built.

I have fiberglass mortars from Colin, and they are "just sitting" in the rack, for lack of better wording.

Here is a link to the photo gallery of PyroU with all the racks people have posted: Click (http://www.pyrouniverse.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=9)

And here is a picture of one of my racks: Click (http://www.pyrouniverse.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=9&pos=39)

Hope that helps

MNPyro

heavy d

April 23rd, 2006, 10:18 AM

Do you have to put plugs in each tube or is it ok to just drop a reloadable in & fire?

Can I use the fiberglass tubes Colin sells for just about any size shell?
Do I need to bond the rubes to the base or do I just slide them into the rack?

I'd like to build a mortar rack out of fiberglass tubes or old mortar tubes.

you can slide the fiberglass tubes into the racks but make shure they are not too loose. you dont want them to jump out of the rack when you fire them. if you want to make an enxepensive rack the milk create is the way to go just make shure you use a milk crate thats strong and durable. you can also see some racks at http://www.pyroreview.com/ under gear. hope this helps, heavy d

PyroBubba

April 25th, 2006, 09:30 PM

Here are some shots showing my design for 3-angle tube boards, which could obviously be adapted for "poor man's" racks:

The basic idea:

http://www.pyroreview.com/gallery/data/520/8angleboard1.jpg
This shows my first prototype. This could be used as a cake board, as well.

Adapted for tube boards:

http://www.pyroreview.com/gallery/data/504/8July05TubeBoards.jpg
These were the boards we used for our #5, #100, #200 & #500 tubes in the 2005 finale. You see
there is a flat space in the front, which could be used for small cakes, but which were used in
2005 for extra tubes.

DennyMo

April 26th, 2006, 04:56 AM

you dont want them to jump out of the rack when you fire them.
Has anyone actually ever seen this happen when a shell fired normally, i.e. no detonation in the tube? I've only been using mortar racks for 4 years, so I can't claim my experience is universal, but I have never seen a mortar "bounce" or "jump" anywhere near high enough to dislocate itself. All of my tubes are fairly loose in their slots, easily slide out if you turn the rack over. It seems to me that we're "making much ado about nothing"...

MNPyro

April 26th, 2006, 05:52 AM

Has anyone actually ever seen this happen when a shell fired normally, i.e. no detonation in the tube? I've only been using mortar racks for 4 years, so I can't claim my experience is universal, but I have never seen a mortar "bounce" or "jump" anywhere near high enough to dislocate itself. All of my tubes are fairly loose in their slots, easily slide out if you turn the rack over. It seems to me that we're "making much ado about nothing"...

On one of my 25 shot racks, there are a couple tubes that are "quite loose" and they have "jumped" out of the position they are in. If you look at my 25 shot rack, it is one of the outside angled tubes. I could easily fix this just by shimming it, but considering I have only used it a couple of times, I haven't gotten around to it. That, and my racks are one shot per show, so if those tubes do jump, there is really no safety concern for the rest of the show. But even still, I had those fused to fire towarsd the end anyways...

SO long story told, short answer, yes, I have seen it jump and dislocate itself.

MNPyro

sfx-oh

April 26th, 2006, 06:15 AM

(no I've never seen one jump out yet, but I bet one could if there was any "spring" to the bottom of the rack - with consequences for the latter tubes which might now be at odd angles)

A note about using cardboard tubes from cases when making PMRs - IFF you're going to cut off the excess bases. There seems to be 2 types of bases for kit tubes. (well, there's lots actually but I like splitting the world into 2 types of anything...). One type, the plug itself is designed to sit on the ground with the square base for vertical stability only, but in the second, (generally cheaper - I would not use these in PMRs) if you look closely - the plug or bottom is raised a 1/8" - 1/4" or so above the ground and the base is designed (apparently) as a sort of shock absorber - so if you were to cut it off, there would be some sort of consequences in the realm of physics I'm pretty sure.

St1d - you've seen the 25 shotter I've used a number of times now - its all of the former type, liquid nailed (with a fraction of an inch inbetween each) onto a plywood board that fits snug into a milk crate. Took an hour to make, looks like its still got a few firings left.

Just my 2 cents.

St1dinoh

April 26th, 2006, 09:17 AM

yeah sfx....your poor mans racks are nice. it's inspired me to save my tubes :D

carp

April 26th, 2006, 10:50 AM

Has anyone actually ever seen this happen when a shell fired normally, i.e. no detonation in the tube? I've only been using mortar racks for 4 years, so I can't claim my experience is universal, but I have never seen a mortar "bounce" or "jump" anywhere near high enough to dislocate itself. All of my tubes are fairly loose in their slots, easily slide out if you turn the rack over. It seems to me that we're "making much ado about nothing"...

I've talked extensively with well seasoned pro's;) on this topic. I've even taken my racks to have the guys look them over an no one has a problem with them being loose and I haven't heard of any jumping all the way out. I have the slots for the mortars at 1/4" greater than the O.D of the mortar(1/8" space around the entire circumference of the mortar). If your mortars are indvidually separated your risk of one jumping and affecting another mortar is very low. I've also seen a well know shop run a screw through the sides boards and into the plug of HDPE mortars. To me, this runs a risk of plug damage over time and makes mortar/plug inspection more difficult. To each his own I guess.

In April I had 5 out of 27 1.75" fiberglass mortars get damaged from being in tight. The mortars blistered where the bottom side boards met the mortar. As the mortar expanded from the pressure/shock of the lift charge, that fiberglass gave 'cuz it was weaker than the wood. If there had been some room I would not be out 5 mortars.

sfx-oh

April 26th, 2006, 05:18 PM

The mortars blistered where the bottom side boards met the mortar. As the mortar expanded from the pressure/shock of the lift charge, that fiberglass gave 'cuz it was weaker than the wood. If there had been some room I would not be out 5 mortars.

Thanks for the warning carp. Just got a box of fiberglass tubes in and would have made that mistake myself I believe. I usually leave a tiny amount of wiggle room for HDPE's but will leave more for the fiberglass ones.

carp

April 27th, 2006, 06:40 AM

I should note that the mortars were reloaded 5 times that night with shells like , Typhoon, Double Star, Cherry Bomb, Grucci, etc. No excals. Now depending when they actually blistered, catastrophe could have been looming.:eek: When I press on the blisters, they give. There were times that night when you would here a very distinguishable "crack" as the shells fired.

Make sure the mortars are soundly touching your bottom boards, otherwise the mortar will be thrown against the bottom board and most likely take a bounce. The force needs to transfer to the rack and to the ground, otherwise you have a light projectile bouncing off a system of rack and earth which has a much greater mass than the mortar. If not touching the bottom board securely, it will be just like dropping them on concrete.

area323

June 14th, 2006, 09:15 PM

Here is a pic of a my poor mans rack.

Deweycoon

June 14th, 2006, 09:30 PM

Here is a pic of a my poor mans rack.
The mortars you have at an angle, the bases will crack when you use this rack the first time.
The bases will crack because you have no support under the flimsy plastic bases.

area323

June 15th, 2006, 10:24 AM

Yeah, they might crack. The bases are really hard but I'll add some silicon tubing right under to absorb the shock. Maybe that will work. Just excuse to test the rack:D

jdean0003

June 15th, 2006, 10:55 AM

Yeah, they might crack. The bases are really hard but I'll add some silicon tubing right under to absorb the shock. Maybe that will work. Just excuse to test the rack:D

I would add some wood shims if you can. I had a rack very similar to yours last year that had the plastic bases without support. They ALL broke, every single one after only one or two shells being fired from them. I do not suggest using them without something soild underneath of them. The tubing may work, but I think shims would be better.

Happy testing!

Switchfoot55

June 15th, 2006, 10:10 PM

My very first rack was made out of a 50 lbs bag of fiber re-inforced concert and SCH 80 PVC (i know i know...i'm not using it any more, don't worry). Total cost was something like $15. I'll try to get some pictures of it up, but its pretty much just a solid brick on concret with seven tubes positioned in a circular pattern. I fired with it for two years, not so much as a scratch on it. But i'm moving on up to HDPE...the advantages of being educated. Safety first!

But hey...it was poor man for sure.

jdean0003

June 16th, 2006, 05:58 AM