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johnpyro
February 25th, 2011, 02:55 PM
I was looking at the PGI safety distances, and was wondering about a few things.

http://www.pgi.org/safety.aspx
Article 14: Minimum Distances from Spectators

Just a couple concerns in regards to language...

4. Chain fused shells fired from racks not capable of withstanding a mortar misaligning detonation.

Now is this talking about poor man's racks/cardboard tube type setups, or is this referring to hdpe racks as well?

10. Roman candles and cakes (Class C/1.4G) - 150 feet

Does this include cakes that have 3" diameter tubes, or do I than resort back to the mortar diameter rule?

I have a couple options for shoot sites this year. None of them have any less than 300 feet or so to play around with. It would just be nice if I could maybe scoot people up a wee bit for a more "personal" experience.

Keep in mind, I am asking these questions because I want to be as safe as possible. I'm also aware that these guidelines are just that, and some individuals may think these ideas are to lax, while others might think they are to strict.

Any and all feedback on any of it is more than appreciated.

I also know this topic is pretty frequent, seeing as how I've searched for it and can't seem to find answers to these specific questions. For the most part, most of the threads are fairly large, so if I missed the answer for it somewhere, please forgive me.

johnpyro
February 25th, 2011, 06:02 PM
Just to bump this up again, I HAVE seen individuals stating that regulations for display fireworks should apply to consumers as well. At the same time, I see license holders stating that consumer fireworks can not hold a candle to display fireworks.

So I guess I'm having a hard time understanding how those same rules might apply...

shrapnel
February 25th, 2011, 06:06 PM
A firework is a firework, forget the DOT designation for this conversation. If you are firing a show as a public or professional display then the regs apply. If it's a private show in your backyard then use common sense, and the PGI guidelines are a good start. Is this a paid show? Will you need a permit? Ins companies also do not care what the DOT designation is, they do not differentiate.

chrisgou
February 25th, 2011, 06:10 PM
Ok, so yeah, 1.4 doesn't hold a candle to 1.3.

For #4, you're basically talking about mortars that are not buried in a sand pit or the ground. Doesn't matter if it's a poor mans rack or hdpe/wood racks.

For #10, it sound's like they're using the 70ft per inch rule. I use 100 ft per inch. Class C cakes/tubes/whatever will never be more than 2 1/4 inch, because we just can't get that legally. Even if the ID of the tube is 3 inches it's not really a 3 inch shell, it's double wrapped, etc.

Ultimately, I'd suggest using 200 ft distance from aerial shells/cakes to the audience. Obviously things like fountains/mines can be closer.

-Chris

johnpyro
February 25th, 2011, 06:10 PM
Absolutely NOT a paid show (unless you count what I'M paying), and I do NOT need a permit.

leeca
February 25th, 2011, 06:28 PM
I was looking at the PGI safety distances, and was wondering about a few things.

http://www.pgi.org/safety.aspx
Article 14: Minimum Distances from Spectators

Just a couple concerns in regards to language...

4. Chain fused shells fired from racks not capable of withstanding a mortar misaligning detonation.

Now is this talking about poor man's racks/cardboard tube type setups, or is this referring to hdpe racks as well?
It pretty much means any rack


10. Roman candles and cakes (Class C/1.4G) - 150 feet

Does this include cakes that have 3" diameter tubes, or do I than resort back to the mortar diameter rule?

I know of a few 1.4G cakes that can toss a shell 200 feet so I can't see 150 feet as being safe when talking about cakes. IMO 250-300 ft to cover NOABs and such



I have a couple options for shoot sites this year. None of them have any less than 300 feet or so to play around with. It would just be nice if I could maybe scoot people up a wee bit for a more "personal" experience.

A couple hundred feet further back should not make any difference with aerials...Actually the view is better with big stuff… If you ever hand fire 1.3G you’ll find that out fast since you are too close to really enjoy what you are shooting to the fullest.

GK
February 25th, 2011, 10:08 PM
I don't know why they have to complicate things.....to try to appease I guess.

Why not just say 100 feet per inch on everything except comets and mines without secondary breaks set those to 50 feet per inch and call it a day.

There are no racks that will withstand a catostrophic failure of a salute without causing misalignment...that section is simply a CYA. Thats because 70 feet / inch (and even 100ft/ inch) is NOT far enough for a horizontally (or severly angled) fired mortar from firing into the crowd. And the 'properly angled mortars' is really a joke (and more CYA).

GK

GK
February 25th, 2011, 10:17 PM
A couple hundred feet further back should not make any difference with aerials...Actually the view is better with big stuff… If you ever hand fire 1.3G you’ll find that out fast since you are too close to really enjoy what you are shooting to the fullest.

A very good point....I don't understand the desire to be 'up close' on aerials. I prefer to have some distance in order to enjoy the effects. I don't need to have burning debris landing on me to appreciate the effects. If you can't impress at 100+ feet per inch, maybe you should reconsider the product you are buying...or the way you are shooting it.

GK