Don't forget about the number that suffer from *legal* use of alcohol and tabacco. :rolleyes:
pyrochris
May 25th, 2006, 06:16 PM
Don't forget about the number that suffer from *legal* use of alcohol and tabacco. :rolleyes:
Hrmm, dont forget about abortion! 1 million babies each year look foward to having their body parts ripped out one by one just because "mommy" wasn't responsible enough! :rolleyes:
SINYpyro
May 25th, 2006, 07:00 PM
You can't compare fireworks to dogs, cars, pens, pencils etc.
How about comparing them to other items that the public perceives as purely for entertainment/celebratory use. Sex toys probably injure more consumers than fireworks :twisted:
A large number of ignorant people also assume that fireworks pose a great risk to innocent bystanders and their property. Kids playing baseball in the street using actual hardballs probably kill, injure, and damage more things than all pyrotechnic devices combined, including ground bombs.
scarp9603
May 25th, 2006, 07:33 PM
Hrmm, dont forget about abortion! 1 million babies each year look foward to having their body parts ripped out one by one just because "mommy" wasn't responsible enough! :rolleyes:
"Daddy" wasn't responsible enough, either!
How about 500,000 baseball-related injuries:
http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/fact/thr_report.cfm?thread_id=192&topcategory=Sports/Exercise
How about 580,000 emergency department visits and more than 1.2 million physician visits per year from bicycles:
http://www.aafp.org/afp/20010515/2007.html
Red Lantern
May 25th, 2006, 09:15 PM
You can't compare fireworks to common things that the vast majority of the population comes in contact with every day of their lives. For the vast majority fireworks are strictly a holiday thing.
If you are a normal person and leave your house every day you risk a dog bite everyday. Most people who come in contact with both deal with dogs everyday while only using fireworks a few days of the year.
It's just like how kitchen stoves cause more accidents than fireworks. Duh. Just about all people come in contact with a stove daily but only a very small percentage of people are also shooting fireworks daily.
I love fireworks as much as anyone else here but it's a fallacy to compare injury statistics to common daily things.
liftngwaght
May 26th, 2006, 02:31 AM
Red Latern got it.
~Thomas
reconlabtech
May 26th, 2006, 06:07 AM
That 9K to 10K injuries stat is misleading and it is misleading on purpose. Most of those injuries are the same kind of injury as playing with matches, lighting candles, road flares, grills, camp fires, brush and leaf fires and other fire involved items. Because it involved a "firework", it gets special attention. The real number of fireworks injuries is much much smaller - those injuries due to the unique nature of the item, ie... a parachute cake flips over and shoots a person or an idiot plays with a 1.3G item and lives to tell about it.
Alcohol RELATED accidents are the same way - there are 30K to 45K acohol involved deaths every year (compared to 18K for handguns) HOWEVER, only about 5K to 6K are directly caused by alcohol consumption.
scarp9603
May 26th, 2006, 02:17 PM
So, what's the biggest source of problems: Dog bites, abortions, sports injuries, bicycle injuries, drugs, automobile accidents, bar-b-que grills, household chemicals, alcohol, tobacco, firearms or fireworks? I'd have to say that by sheer numbers, fireworks are a negligible source of problems.
reconlabtech
May 27th, 2006, 06:56 AM
Yes, among ourselves I would say fireworks is a minimal danger that although it should be respected, provides a lot of enjoyment in our families lives and also allows us to personally celebrate our country.
We should advocate safety and responsibility and train folks to understand that fireworks can be best enjoyed when used responsibly. Injuries from accidents will happen and in every area of recreation, there are those who do not like it and will skew the numbers to justify their position. We must not back down from being sane and knowledgeable advocates for fireworks.
I do not mean to diminish the effects accidents have had on others lives, just to make sure we have a realistic view of their place in our society.
There should be training classes for Class C just like there are driver improvement courses and shooter's safety courses. After passing these courses and getting certification, responsible citizens should be able to purchase and enjoy Class C fireworks, everywhere, of course abiding by burn bans because of drought.
Fireworkslvr
May 27th, 2006, 11:18 AM
In George Plimpton's book Fireworks: A History and Celebration, he mentioned that according to the CPSC there were 131 consumer products that were listed as more dangerous than fireworks:
Injuries due to fireworks have dropped drastically in recent years. Indeed, the Consumer Product Safety Commision now ranks 131 consumer products more dangerous than fireworks-including grocery carts, beds (which rank eighth on the list-do that many people fall out of them?), key rings, high chairs, golf equipment, tricycles, and plumbing fixtures. Fireworks would rank even lower if it were not for the illegal cherry bombs and M-80s.
Also, keep in mind that this book was written in 1984, and some of these might of moved higher or lower on the list, although my guess is that they are still on the list in roughly the same order that they were in 1984.
I also acknowledge what Red Lantern said about not comparing fireworks to everyday consumer items, this is true. My post is specifically for information purposes only, and I wouldn't reccommend using any of them because some of them might be innacurate now (as opposed to in 1984.)
jman
May 27th, 2006, 11:30 AM
You can't compare fireworks to common things that the vast majority of the population comes in contact with every day of their lives. For the vast majority fireworks are strictly a holiday thing.
If you are a normal person and leave your house every day you risk a dog bite everyday. Most people who come in contact with both deal with dogs everyday while only using fireworks a few days of the year.
It's just like how kitchen stoves cause more accidents than fireworks. Duh. Just about all people come in contact with a stove daily but only a very small percentage of people are also shooting fireworks daily.
I love fireworks as much as anyone else here but it's a fallacy to compare injury statistics to common daily things.
Yes you can compare them to everyday products because it only takes one time to get hurt no matter what it is. You can use a can opener for 10 years never suffering and injury and the same can be said of fireworks. I know I come in more contact with fireworks around the 4th than I do a can opener in a years time. I do realize there are things that it is hard to compare to, but alot of things we use, you can compare. Kitchen stove? No, it would be foolish to compare it because of its wide spread daily use. But there are many products that can compare. Dog bites, well the CPSC doesnt have much control over that one just better hope you can run fast:lol:
Red Lantern
May 27th, 2006, 11:39 AM
Yes you can compare them to everything else because it only takes one time to get hurt no matter what it is. You can use a can opener for 10 years never suffering and injury and the same can be said of fireworks. I know I come in more contact with fireworks around the 4th than I do a can opener in a years time.
I'm in the same boat with you and the can opener around the fourth,but we aren't the average people that make up the bulk of the statistics.
We are what some might call fanatics.:D
Xyrus
June 2nd, 2006, 08:16 PM
I love fireworks as much as anyone else here but it's a fallacy to compare injury statistics to common daily things.
In that case then, let's just compare it to "holiday injuries". Like number of injuries caused by drinking on the holidays? Or the number of electrical injuries at Xmas? Or gunshot victims? Injuries attained by going to concerts? Or by visiting another country?
The point being, that compared to what people would normally do on or off holiday, fireworks are safe. I'm also willing to bet that those firework-related injuries are mostly caused by illegal explosive devices and not fireworks.
In short, fireworks are no more dangerous than the people using them. If you're an idiot and light fireworks in your hands, then you're asking for trouble. But the same can be said about the idiot who polished off a fifth of Bicardi at the Xmas party and gets in his car to drive home. The difference being the idiot with the firework will most likely only injure himself.
~X~
Don F
June 3rd, 2006, 06:09 AM
Fine then look at sports . most people dont play sports , even in school football is played by a minority of students per capita. Look at all the injuries and deaths to persons under the age of 18 playing football .
17 kids killed in one year , hundreds of broken bones, thousands of torn muscles, tens of thousands of rug burns ( and any burn from fireworks is counted ) its a crock . and yes football is also seasonal so considering its dangers it should obviously banned for the public good . shoot even cheerleading beats the fireworks injuries . fireworks just makes an easy target. Now with the backing of the NFPA and Homeland security , the cpsc is going overboard .
Stinkyfeesh
June 3rd, 2006, 10:29 AM
How about looking at injuries putting up christmas lights? :D
scarp9603
July 24th, 2006, 05:06 PM
What are some of the other complaints about fireworks?
-3 weeks of noise disturbs animals, and keeps people from getting their sleep at night: We've got a neighbor who lets her dog out at all hours of the day and night, all year 'round, and it barks constantly.
-they make an awful mess: Our beagles kill a rabbit every week or two. Ever disposed of a dead rabbit? Ever had to clean up dog c-@p from your lawn?
-safety/liability: Another neighbor was afraid to do a potluck for the neighborhood 4th of July party in her driveway. But last year her unlicenced, unvaccinated dog bit a meter reader! A few weeks ago, she bought a second dog. No licence or shots for this one yet, either.
-they're too expensive: ever take your dog to the vet?
JoeRatman
July 25th, 2006, 08:56 AM
How about comparing to BB-Q accidents? Most people do it occasionally during the summer months, usually for holidays, just like fireworks. There are both diehard pyros and diehard bbq-ers who do it a lot more frequently than the average person. There is heat and flame involved in both activities. Both are activities that young children should be involved in. It could be argued both are "optional" or "recreational activities".
yeagerb
July 25th, 2006, 09:04 AM
How about comparing them to other items that the public perceives as purely for entertainment/celebratory use. Sex toys probably injure more consumers than fireworks :twisted:
ROFLMAO!!! :lol: Stat's, man. I want stats!!!!!
"Man killed by electrical sexual aid - film at 11!"
leeca
July 25th, 2006, 03:44 PM
You can't compare fireworks to common things that the vast majority of the population comes in contact with every day of their lives. For the vast majority fireworks are strictly a holiday thing.
If you are a normal person and leave your house every day you risk a dog bite everyday. Most people who come in contact with both deal with dogs everyday while only using fireworks a few days of the year.
It's just like how kitchen stoves cause more accidents than fireworks. Duh. Just about all people come in contact with a stove daily but only a very small percentage of people are also shooting fireworks daily.
I love fireworks as much as anyone else here but it's a fallacy to compare injury statistics to common daily things.
Right On..http://www.deephousepage.com/smilies/clap.gif I love fireworks as much or more then anyone on this forum, but if you are going to toss out stats to save the cause you do not want to look like a moron when a statistician put your stats into a realistic comparison.
We can't use that nice 2004 CPSC stat anymore. 9,000 fireworks injuries a year did not sound as bad as the 10,800 for 2005 now being reported by the CPSC. So it is not 9,00-10,000 its is 10,800 and they have document each and every case to be fireworks related, Not burnt my a match or candle.
So 333,687 dog bite injuries per year /365 * 7 = 6,400 Dog Bytes a week VS 10,800 looks like fireworks has the bigger number. (Almost all of the 10,800 fireworks injuries happen the week of the 4th of July):(
So what can we do to reduce the numbers closer or lower to the old 2004 CPSC stats? Well per the CPSC. 70% of all the fireworks accidents happen to 17 years of age and lower. They are the folks that are still STUPID! So how to do get the fireworks out of the hands of the STUPID and still allow the regular folks to shoot some stuff?
There should be training classes for Class C just like there are driver improvement courses and shooter's safety courses. After passing these courses and getting certification, responsible citizens should be able to purchase and enjoy Class C fireworks, everywhere, of course abiding by burn bans because of drought. Now this is the direction to go. This has the potential of dropping the CPSC stat of 10,800 to just 3,400 injuries or less. Now all the sudden that 6,400 Dog Bytes a week VS 3,400 is looking real good for our side.;)
It all boils down to education and responsibility. You can, and we have asked people to read and heed the fireworks warning labels and do what they say. But it is not working! We ask people not to allow little kids to play with fireworks unsupervised. But it is still happening! At least the idea of a license forces the issue. You will get a fireworks education, and that little 5 year old can’t touch sparklers. Anyone that is going against this is now breaking the law. I have no problem with the cops hauling off these kind of sh*theads that are screwing things up for the educated and responsible people.:cool:
ROFLMAO!!! :lol: Stat's, man. I want stats!!!!!
"Man killed by electrical sexual aid - film at 11!"
EDIT Hahah you asked for it..Ouch! With sex injuries, love really hurts (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11624436/)
ParrotHead_pyro
July 25th, 2006, 04:59 PM
The CPSC report estimates that 6500 of the injuries occurred in the one month period of 6/18/2005 to 7/18/2005. That makes the weekly injury rate 1625 for fireworks which looks much better than Fido.
scarp9603
July 25th, 2006, 05:13 PM
Since "you do not want to look like a moron when a statistician put your stats into a realistic comparison", the 2005 CPSC report actually states that "about 60 per cent of the annual fireworks-related injuries for 2005 occurred" in the period "between June 18 and July 18, 2005". (http://www.cpsc.gov/library/2005fwreport.pdf, page 2, Executive Summary, 2nd paragraph)
So 333,687 dog bite injuries per year / 12 = 27,807 Dog Bytes in a month.
About 60% of 10,800 = 6,480 fireworks-related injuries in the month between June 18 and July 18.
That 27,807 Dog Bytes a month VS 6,480 fireworks-related injuries in the month between June 18 and July 18 IS looking real good for our side.
leeca
July 25th, 2006, 05:35 PM
Since "you do not want to look like a moron when a statistician put your stats into a realistic comparison", the 2005 CPSC report actually states that "about 60 per cent of the annual fireworks-related injuries for 2005 occurred" in the period "between June 18 and July 18, 2005". (http://www.cpsc.gov/library/2005fwreport.pdf, page 2, Executive Summary, 2nd paragraph)
So 333,687 dog bite injuries per year / 12 = 27,807 Dog Bytes in a month.
About 60% of 10,800 = 6,480 fireworks-related injuries in the month between June 18 and July 18.
That 27,807 Dog Bytes a month VS 6,480 fireworks-related injuries in the month between June 18 and July 18 IS looking real good for our side.
Hey that is what I love about this place, if you mess-up, no one will be shy to set you straight.
Just to be clear I was not trying say / imply you were a moron.. I had a recent meeting with some of our city councilmen awhile back, one of the guys speaking before me tossed out the stat about 400,00 Basketball injuries for 2005, and one of the Anti fireworks guys broke it down, all the sudden the guy with the basketball stats was looking like he had a little egg on his face.
Edit: Yep I had that bass akwards.. scarp9603 your kicking my ass today:oops:
I have to admit that is a good stat "4.29 Dog Bite injuries to 1 fireworks injury" is a keeper.http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/spezial/jasons_smilie/thumbsup.gif
scarp9603
July 25th, 2006, 06:58 PM
27,807 Dog Bite injuries treated in emergency departments in a month / 6,480 fireworks-related injuries in the month between June 18 and July 18
= 4.29 Dog Bite injuries to 1 fireworks injury.
MrX8503
July 25th, 2006, 07:25 PM
I can see Red Lantern's point about how dog bites and bicycle accidents are commong everyday things vs. Fireworks which is a few times in the year.
So it wouldnt be completely fair to compare them, but in my opinion because Fireworks are only used a few times a year, it makes it a much safer consumer product.
The fact that we dont use fireworks everyday is just another safety measure statistically.
yeagerb
July 26th, 2006, 04:23 AM
Thanks to Leeca's article, a true sign of the times we live in:
"One guy, whose girlfriend made an awkward landing in 1994, underwent emergency surgery and subsequently sued her claiming that years of sexual dysfunction resulted. He lost in court."
Proof that this country is "sue happy"!!!
Though fireworks are a holiday/seasonal event, I vote we use education to drive down the incidents per lbs of explosive material, year-to-year and prove that fireworks are both FUN and SAFE, when properly used!!! Though you'll never get the injury rate down to "0" (to many stupid people), it's a great target to try and achieve!
scarp9603
July 26th, 2006, 11:40 AM
I heartily agree, yeagerb! Instead of fireworks "safety" campaigns that try to scare people into not using something that is relatively safe, the authorities and organizations like the NFPA could be teaching the public how to use fireworks safely (and be considerate of others, too). The alternative would be mandatory training or even licencing.
I just don't understand why anyone ever gives metal wire sparklers to little kids, when Morning Glories are available. If I were a retailer, I wouldn't even stock metal wire sparklers. I'll bet that would save most of the 1,100 sparkler injuries a year.