I was going to buy some HDPE pipes and build a rack for the first time. I usually just use the tubes that come with the shells. I had some questions that I was hoping you guys could answer.
The tube that came with the Super Mags has an inside diameter of 1.875" I was thinking of getting the 12" HDPE DR-11 tubes with the slightly larger inside diameter of 1.91"
1) Do you see any problems with this?
2) I've heard about people "pushing" the shells down to make sure they are touching the plug at the bottom. Sounds like a great idea to me.
Is there anything specific that you're "pushing" with? Could I just use a 12" piece of wood or something?
Thanks in advance for any reponse. Appreciate the help.
Firejunkie
September 29th, 2008, 04:32 AM
I have fired many 1 3/4" ball shells from dr11 with no problems as far as height is concerned,however if most of your shells will be of the non-excal,Critical acclaim variety,go with Dr9,these tubes will safely fire about 80% of the shells out there.
As far as pushing down a shell,well thats a matter of how tight it is,some resistance is ok,this usually just the fuse taking up some space,if it's too tight and you have to force the shell down,you may choke the fuse and the shell will not fire(leaving you a non-fired shell wedged into the tube)or the shell may still stick and flowerpot in the tube.
I like to unwrap the fuse and turn the shell upside down to see if it a good fit for the tube(about 1/8" around the shell is good)and then load the shell the correct way(lift cup/charge down:)) be safe!
jonkelley82
September 29th, 2008, 01:56 PM
Firejunkie hit this nail 100% on the head. All consumer 1.75" ball shells are not all the same diamter. There are slight variations from manufacturer to manufacturer, type of one shell to another, and even variations in the same batch/case of shells.
It is possible to shoot the larger diameter 1.75" ball shells from DR11 with little loss of height (although there will be some loss). The smaller end of the 1.75" ball shell spectrum will break uncomfortably low and is not advised.
Now canister shells (excalibur, lock-n-load, black mamba, smoke & mirrors, etc.) are a good fit for a DR11 tube. Some people put these canister shells in the smaller DR9 tubes, and this is where you are probobly getting the "pushing" referance from. It is reccomended that you don't push/force any shell into a mortar. In a perfect world the shell should glide to the bottom of the mortar under it's own weight with a slight vacuum resistance from tight tolerances. Although, in the case that you are inserting canister shells into DR9, as firejunkie pointed out, a good test fitting of each shell is a must. This is done by untaping/unknoting the fuse, and inserting the shell upsidedown. This allows you to see what the clearance will be when the shell is upright in the correct firing position, but without the interferance of the leader/fuse (as in you lit it and the fuse burned itself out of the way)
It is important to point out that not only does every shell have variations in size, but all of your mortars to too. HDPE is manufactured with more attention to the OD (outside diameter), rather than the ID (inside diameter). With that being said, all shells & mortars in question, that require test fitting, need to be placed in that exact mortar/shell configuration that they were tested in. (assuming the past the fitment test)
To sum it all up, if you are shooting ball shells buy DR9 tubes/mortars. (these are best for the super mags you asked about, if they are World Class Super Mags, If they are Kylin brand Super Mags then I'm assuming DR11 would be the best choice, but I'm not 100% sure) If you are shooting canister shells then buy DR11 tubes/mortars. If you are shooting a mix of cans and balls, then the best answer is to get both DR9 & DR11 mortars and build more racks, or exchange the mortars in your racks as needed.
If you are short on mortar funds, then it's kind of up to you. I would say decide what you shoot more of, cans or balls? Buy the tube that correctly fits what you shoot more of. Some balls can be taped (masking tape) to increase their diameter to better fit the larger DR11. While some canister shells can be a safe snug fit, but not force fit in the smaller DR9 tubes the outer shell paper (the decroritive label or foil) can be removed to loosen the fit. Even doing this just accept the fact the some will not fit period.
Again, the best answer to to buy both DR9 & DR11 if you are shooting both balls and cans. As tapeing balls and shaving cans is a very tedious and time consuming task.
heavy d
September 29th, 2008, 02:32 PM
i would go with the dr -11 in the 12 inch length so you can fit both cans and ball shell's and then i would not buy any cheap small diameter shells they are not worth the money and they have short fuses. you want to make sure the shell is on the bottom of the tube not hanging in the tube.
steve t.
September 29th, 2008, 03:53 PM
what I do is buy only dr11 mortars, however I save all my cardboard mortars from the various kits I buy, then I knocked the bases off of them (so I could build racks to put them in), and then treat them by dipping them in minwax wood hardener thus making them much more durable.
then there is no need to pay for dr9 guns. Even if they only were good for a dozen or so shells (I will bet they are good for alot more than that though), you get new stock every year when you buy new shells.
Some may disagree with my method, but the way I see it is that alot of shell kits come 12 to a box with 1 tube. This tells me that the manufacturer is saying the tube SHOULD withstand 12 shots before becomming unsafe for further use.
I am of the belief that treating them should double the usual life expectancey of a GOOD parallel wound cardboard tube.
subnote: Don't assume this! before loading up for the next show, inspect EVERY gun in your arsenal, EVEN THE HDPE ONES!!!!!
AnonyMouse
September 29th, 2008, 05:33 PM
Hey guys...
Thanks a lot for all the advice. I think I'm going to buy both the DR-9 tubes and the DR-11 tubes just to be safe. This will be my first time firing canister shells (I just found out about them through this site) but I plan on firing many more. :) I usually fire a bunch of ball shells.
Thanks for the upside-down testing tip... didn't know about that. Will definitely use that tip.
I know you shouldn't ever force a shell in, but I figure sometimes they might get hung up a bit and I could just slowly slide them into place by slightly pushing on them just to make sure they're at the bottom of the tube without using force.
AnonyMouse
September 29th, 2008, 05:35 PM
Oh btw... they are the canister Kylin King Super Mags not the ball shell WC kind.
stuntborg
September 29th, 2008, 06:53 PM
Sometimes we go a little overboard here. Simply put, if it fits in a DR9 then use that. If it doesn't then put it in a DR11. You can use about anything to encourage it. A roman candle, a stick, piece of wood, doesn't really matter. If it goes in then it will come out. I'd be surprised if you could get it into the tube and not have the lift charge get it out of the tube.
AnonyMouse
September 30th, 2008, 01:03 AM
Sometimes we go a little overboard here. Simply put, if it fits in a DR9 then use that. If it doesn't then put it in a DR11. You can use about anything to encourage it. A roman candle, a stick, piece of wood, doesn't really matter. If it goes in then it will come out. I'd be surprised if you could get it into the tube and not have the lift charge get it out of the tube.
Haha... appreciate the advice. I'll try the trial and error method. Just wanted to gain enough info so that I could try to avoid low breaks, flowerpotting, and stuck shells.
JoeRatman
September 30th, 2008, 02:10 AM
Moved to racks and launchers forum.
UnkleSAM
September 30th, 2008, 08:27 AM
You must use a spent Roman Candle to seat your shells. Anything else, and I'll revoke your Pyro Card. :)
stuntborg
September 30th, 2008, 09:00 AM
You must use a spent Roman Candle to seat your shells. Anything else, and I'll revoke your Pyro Card. :)
There is only one problem with this. If your setting up the show, chances are you don't have any spent roman candles yet. Then again, maybe thats a good reason to go light one.
DoctorG
September 30th, 2008, 09:16 AM
I use one of those torch lighters...NOT.
Just get 9s and 11s. At some point in your pryo career you'll have use for the other....say a friend comes and forgets his 11, and hey..now you have it and don't have to wait until another time.
win-win
PyrogearSteve
October 5th, 2008, 10:04 AM
I just want to add that unlike suggested in a previous post, the rule of canisters go in dr11 and balls go in dr9 is simply not true.
Many canisters fit fine in dr9 and will perform better in dr9. Many balls will not fit in dr9 and you will need to use dr11.
Even the same make and model of shell may have significant variance from year to year. I bought some excaliburs in both 2006 and 2007. The latter shells were significantly taller and narrower.
DennyMo
October 7th, 2008, 07:07 PM
This must be my favorite copy-n-paste:
http://www.pyrouniverse.com/FAQ.htm#7
Pyroforfun
October 8th, 2008, 10:20 PM
to point out that not only does every shell have variations in size, but all of your mortars to too. HDPE is manufactured with more attention to the OD (outside diameter), rather than the ID (inside diameter).
This is not a correct statement. HDPE Coil stock has more attention to the OD than ID. HDPE rigid is made with strict ID as it is used in water and gas industry. :lol:
jonkelley82
October 9th, 2008, 08:22 AM
This is not a correct statement. HDPE Coil stock has more attention to the OD than ID. HDPE rigid is made with strict ID as it is used in water and gas industry. :lol:
If this is true then fine, but I was under the assumption that rigid was also used as pipe liner as an alternitive to digging up and replacing old waste/supply pipes, thus more attention to the HDPE's OD as it had to fit the ID of the old pipe, while the ID didn't much matter. The PSI rating was more important as the PSI rating had to be high enough to withstand the increased presure from the overall reduction.
DennyMo
October 9th, 2008, 06:24 PM
This is not a correct statement. HDPE Coil stock has more attention to the OD than ID. HDPE rigid is made with strict ID as it is used in water and gas industry. :lol:According to ISCO, a manufacturer of HDPE pipe,
Average inside diameter calculated using nominal OD and minimum wall plus 6% for use in estimating fluid flows. Actual ID will vary. Their size table calls both the ID and OD "nominal", but don't indicate any +/- tolerances, so I don't think we can call either of them "controlled".
http://www.isco-pipe.com/pdf/IPS3408-3608.pdf