Pgi 2007/dot

[papacarl]

Just a heads up on DOT here at Fargo. I believe they said if your transporting over 9000 lbs. your placard must have 0336, not just 1.4 g.
Might save you a ticket.

Carl

[GK]

Yeah....Good luck folks. I think everyone has been cited in Fargo.

I'd say be careful, but they'll find something to cite you for regardless.

GK

[jknepp1954]

What is up this this 0336 thing. :confused: Since when? :confused:
None of the containers we get here have that, and they are certainly over 9000# and only have the 1.4g.

[NYSHOOTER]

What is up this this 0336 thing. :confused: Since when? :confused:
None of the containers we get here have that, and they are certainly over 9000# and only have the 1.4g.


Sounds like a local DOT thing. I guess while everyone is visiting thier fine state. They choose to pick pocket the PGI tourist

[jknepp1954]

AS far as the placard goes, i don't think one that says 1.4g, Un0336 exists. I have the latest J.J. Kellar transport catalog and there is none in there.
I think someone is mixed up.

[noel]

"mixed up"...doesn't matter after they write the ticket.

[matttmatttmattt]

Have some of the early arrivals been getting tickets?

[GK]

ALL of the arrivals have gotten 'tickets' un less they came in at night or other times when the inspectors were not there.

Yes the UN number thing IS real and in the regs, no there are no placards with it on there yet....Do you see a trend here?

They are citing people for things like "Load not secure" which is TOTALLY subjective and at the inspector's discretion.....As in "If you can't find anything else, use the 'Load not secure' citation".

There are national freight carriers that some companies have used that have been cited and put out of sevice. There are carriers that have had level one inspections along the trip up and PASSED that have been cited.

I think that ANY professional company that runs hazmat would be foolish to EVER go to another PGI convention. Why take the risk of losing your cert over a an inspection that you can't win ?

So the convention very well may become simply an open shooting site where you must bring in your own product....how fun will that be.

GK

[Mike in CO]

It's unfortunate, but it sounds to me like this should be the last year of having PGI in Fargo. Looks like the state would rather not have all that revenue returning by the way they are treating everyone. I'd bet there must be other states who would be more friendly.

[jknepp1954]

GK - It sounds like a local/state set up to me to keep PGI or anything like it out of Fargo forever. It is been in Fargo how many times now? And if in REgs, how come nobody (meaning all transport companies) know about it?
Sounds like a job for the PGI, NFA, APA to band together and fight like hell to get this bull crap out of the regs or something like that. especially when then is no placard design for it. NO official placard = no regs!!! = no fines!!!:mad: :mad: :mad:

Joyce

PS ---> "There are national freight carriers that some companies have used that have been cited and put out of sevice. There are carriers that have had level one inspections along the trip up and PASSED that have been cited." GK - there you said it - these regs simply don't exist

[Murph']

It's unfortunate, but it sounds to me like this should be the last year of having PGI in Fargo. Looks like the state would rather not have all that revenue returning by the way they are treating everyone. I'd bet there must be other states who would be more friendly.

not just happening in fargo, they are issuing citations for people unloading containers of 1.4G without background checks. sounds like shipping wont be the only thing driving up prices on FW!!

Murph'

[Hfireworks]

AS far as the placard goes, i don't think one that says 1.4g, Un0336 exists. I have the latest J.J. Kellar transport catalog and there is none in there.
I think someone is mixed up.

A good black magic marker may help here if you really don't want a ticket.:)

[matttmatttmattt]

How have the people who are not in commerce been treated?

[jknepp1954]

not just happening in fargo, they are issuing citations for people unloading containers of 1.4G without background checks. sounds like shipping wont be the only thing driving up prices on FW!!

Murph'
what the f! Sorry guys i don't mean to swear but this crapp is pissing me off. :mad: :mad: :mad:
Since when does anyone need a background check to unload a container of 1.4g? 1.3g - diff., buy 1.4g - this is bull crap!!!:brick:
Some one has their f'n nuts twisted!

[NYSHOOTER]

Guess we'll hear the full stories next week, when everyone gets home safe.

[stuntborg]

Okay, this is coming from someone not in the business but if everyone is getting cited for something it looks pretty clear to me that you are being unfairly called out and you need to get together and do something about it. After everything is over put the facts together and go after the DOT. It could boil down to some local bureaucrat deciding to make a name for himself and "stretch the rules" a little bit. Is there anyway to fight the citations and in fact fight them as a group under the claim that your group has been unfairly persecuted? Failing inspections where others have passed, using obscure regulations that have never been enforced in the past and in fact are impossible to meet (placard does not exist)...sounds to me like pretty good grounds to fight back with.

[lostfido]

Being a certified commercial vehicle inspector (Minnesota) I have had to deal with the Minnesota/North Dakota thing on a regular basis. Minnesota does not use the national standard of the Commercial Vehicle Safety Alliance. A vehicle from Minnesota receives a Minnesota sticker which is not acceptable for North Dakota. I have to follow a more strict guideline in MN than the CVSA has but when ever I send a truck to ND or SD for that matter the driver receives a citation for something.
I have had brand new trucks fail the brake adjustment inspection even though they are perfectly within specs.
As far as going through Fargo, and your vehicle is loaded with a product to sell, or you are there to do business, it is considered intra state commerce which requires you have to stop and go through the inspection. I know they love to harass the racers who go to races in Fargo because they are in racing for a profit?
The hazardous material placard situation is a huge deal in MN because of the amount of HAZMAT carried in small vehicles under 26,000 pounds meaning they do not have to go through any inspections. I have researched my Commercial Vehicle Inspectors handbook and cannot find anything about this particular placard(my book is 6 months old)
I hate to say it but I would try to get there at night so you can avoid all of this hassle.

[pyroholic]

It sounds like Fargo is trying to pull what rudy g. did to the PGI when they came to NY. He's an evil one. "PH"

[jknepp1954]

you mean the Weedsport, Ny Fireworks festival in 98?
YEah those SOB's

[Deweycoon]

Screw Fargo, hold the PGI 2 years in a row in Mason City, IA. :lol:
30 minutes from my house.

[TipRing]

I'm sure other states and Cities would love to have them come there.

[Big No No]

It sounds like Fargo is trying to pull what rudy g. did to the PGI when they came to NY. He's an evil one. "PH"

RudyG is from the Chicago area and a heck of a nice guy. He is a member of the PPP club and a loyal member of this forum. You must be talking about one of those NY politicians. :twisted:

[papacarl]

Several of the B vendors have already made statements they will not be bringing any product to the PGI in the future. The laws are on the books though. The only thing is if they can't find anything else you are probably going to get the unsecured load ticket. The PGI invites the DOT to the event. I heard several people mention it was to be brought up in one of the meetings.

The magic marker does work on the placard, one of ours was told and did it, and all they said was someone must have called you.

carl

[matttmatttmattt]

Are the clubs that are doing shows getting hit with tickets as well?

[GK]

This is NOT about "Fargo" or North Dakota. These are FEDERAL motor carrier inspectors. These guys flew in to set up shop at the PGI gate. They will likely be back next year, regardless of where it is.

It seems to have settled down some, probably because anyone who was coming in with product has already arrived (and been cited).

If you are NOT "in commerce" you do not come under the regulation of the FMCSA (Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration).

GK

[lostfido]

If these people flew in for this show, they obviously are out to find people transporting HAZMAT incorrectly.
I have been in this business for 20 years and have not had to deal with any one from FMCSA ever.
As GK stated this will not include anyone not doing commerce, so hopefully this is over for most show attendees.
It is interesting to note that the CVSA and the FMSCA use the same inspection procedures, yet they flew people in to do inspections specifically: PROFILING?





The vehicle portion of the FMCSA's North American Uniform Driver-Vehicle Inspection Procedure (NAUD-VIP) requirements, CVSA's North American Commercial Vehicle Critical Safety Inspection Items and Out-Of-Service Criteria and Appendix G of subchapter B are similar documents and follow the same inspection procedures. The same items are required to be inspected by each document. FMCSA's and CVSA's out-of-service criteria are intended to be used in random roadside inspections to identify critical vehicle inspection items and provide criteria for placing a vehicle(s) out-of-service. A vehicle(s) is placed out-of-service only when by reason of its mechanical condition or loading it is determined to be so imminently hazardous as to likely cause an accident or breakdown, or when such condition(s) would likely contribute to loss of control of the vehicle(s) by the driver. A certain amount of flexibility is given to the inspecting official whether to place the vehicle out-of-service at the inspection site or if it would be less hazardous to allow the vehicle to proceed to a repair facility for repair. The distance to the repair facility must not exceed 25 miles. The roadside type of inspection, however, does not necessarily mean that a vehicle has to be defect free in order to continue in service.

[pyroholic]

RudyG is from the Chicago area and a heck of a nice guy. He is a member of the PPP club and a loyal member of this forum. You must be talking about one of those NY politicians. :twisted:

Thanks for pointing that out Big. Yes, the rudy g. I'm talking about is the one from NYC and does not diserve the respect of using cap. letters on his handle. Quite the opposite of our Pyro Brother, RudyG from Chicago. "PH":oops:

[papacarl]

Last year in Wisconsin, it kind of shocked us to see Missouri DOT agents at the PGI. Then it dawned on us, they are not Missouri anything, they are federal and have jurisdiction anywhere in the U.S.

This year it was interesting to watch them, ie: Feds, State, and local working together. While they were checking paperwork and the truck a local officer asked if I had any Black Powder, then Flash, and finally when i told him I was to old to play that crap, he wanted to know if I wanted to buy any, like he had it for sale.

When we came in they were asking any vehicle, trailers or not if they had fireworks. Cars and pickups that said no were waived through after that.

carl

[fashionheadhunter]

The PGI invites the DOT to the event.

carl

Isn't that like inviting divorce lawyers to your wedding?

[Marty]

Isn't that like inviting divorce lawyers to your wedding?

Kinda what I thought, but looking at it from a different perspective it says "We have nothing to hide". Seems like a 50/50 shot at a good thing that seems to have gone the wrong way.

[matttmatttmattt]

Even if the PGI didn't "invite" the DOT they would be there anyways.

[harobikes333]

Several of the B vendors have already made statements they will not be bringing any product to the PGI in the future. The laws are on the books though. The only thing is if they can't find anything else you are probably going to get the unsecured load ticket. The PGI invites the DOT to the event. I heard several people mention it was to be brought up in one of the meetings.

The magic marker does work on the placard, one of ours was told and did it, and all they said was someone must have called you.

carl


Last year in Wisconsin, it kind of shocked us to see Missouri DOT agents at the PGI. Then it dawned on us, they are not Missouri anything, they are federal and have jurisdiction anywhere in the U.S.

This year it was interesting to watch them, ie: Feds, State, and local working together. While they were checking paperwork and the truck a local officer asked if I had any Black Powder, then Flash, and finally when i told him I was to old to play that crap, he wanted to know if I wanted to buy any, like he had it for sale.

When we came in they were asking any vehicle, trailers or not if they had fireworks. Cars and pickups that said no were waived through after that.

carl

I talked with many people that have been going to the conventions for many years and they said this year was one of the skimpiest as far as chemical supplies go, etc. :(

I have to agree with mattmattmatt though. They would come anyway.....

This, being my first convention though was awesome :)